SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7135
             4A7MSAT3
        1             (Jury not present)
        2             MR. TIGAR:  Your Honor, we have agreed on an order and
        3    at this time I move under Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure
        4    Rule 29(a) for a judgment of acquittal.  I would like to serve
        5    on the government, and hand it to your Honor, a brief letter
        6    that contains the authorities, cases that I will be discussing
        7    during my presentation to the Court.
        8             May I stand at the lecturn, your Honor?
        9             THE COURT:  Sure.
       10             MR. TIGAR:  I would like to begin, your Honor, by
       11    talking about some elements of offense issues and then go on to
       12    some of the more general questions that we believe are raised
       13    by this motion for judgment of acquittal.  Talking about the
       14    role of the lawyer as the proof has now come in and the role of
       15    free expression.
       16             I want to begin by talking about Count 2 because as we
       17    have repeatedly heard, if there were not Count 2 there could
       18    not be a Count 4 and 5.  And Count 2 is drawn under section
       19    956(a) of Title 18.  It alleges a conspiracy to kill or kidnap.
       20             THE COURT:  Could you hold on just one moment?
       21             MR. TIGAR:  Of course, your Honor.
       22             THE COURT:  All right.
       23             MR. TIGAR:  Thank you, your Honor.
       24             Actually, it charges a conspiracy to murder and kidnap
       25    persons in "a foreign country."  When I mentioned what I was
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7136
             4A7MSAT3
        1    going to do on Rule 29, I mentioned that we had hoped that the
        2    government would tell us what foreign country was involved.
        3    And if you will recall, counsel for the government said that
        4    the Court had not required that specificity in the indictment,
        5    which is true if we look at your Honor's opinion on the
        6    pretrial motions at page 303 and 304.  The Court said no, you
        7    didn't have to say.  And I suggest that now is the procedural
        8    hour when the government does have to say what foreign country.
        9    The indictment alleges a foreign country.
       10             And then so the next question is, what is a foreign
       11    country?  The West Bank is not a foreign country because it is
       12    not a country.  The struggle was said to have taken place in
       13    Palestine.  We heard a number of great many exhibits introduced
       14    today, including Government Exhibit 542, talking about freeing
       15    Palestine and resistance inside Palestine.  Jerusalem, another
       16    area referred to, either is or is not in a country, depending
       17    on whether one takes the view of the government of Israel that
       18    it is a part of Israel, or that one takes the majority view
       19    under international law that it is not.
       20             Now, the Court may pause to ask the question, well, of
       21    course, everybody knows what a country is.  But everybody
       22    doesn't know what a country is.  The pleader has charged that
       23    it took place in a foreign country.  That means that the
       24    government has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that wherever
       25    this was to take place was foreign and that it was a country.
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7137
             4A7MSAT3
        1             The Second Circuit addressed this issue in a case
        2    called Cheung v. United States 213 F.3d 82.  In that case,
        3    there are a number of authorities of which the federal courts
        4    have decided what is a country, what is a sovereign and so on.
        5    And the holding of Cheung or the discussion of Cheung makes
        6    clear that, first, foreign country, like foreign government, is
        7    something as to which the executive branch has the first say by
        8    virtue of recognizing an entity; and, second, however, where
        9    the matter comes up in a decided case, it is not subject to the
       10    political question doctrine because a court must examine the
       11    resulting status and decide independently.  Cheung is good, in
       12    our view, because it cites Chief Justice Marshall's opinion to
       13    the Court in the Charming Betsy case in 1804, which is the
       14    fountainhead of this doctrine that no federal statute can be
       15    interpreted save in accordance with the rules of international
       16    law.
       17             And the rules of international law are quite clear
       18    that whether or not a place in a foreign area is a country or
       19    not is a matter that can be attended with some difficulty.  The
       20    government has not produced any evidence whatever that the
       21    murder or kidnap was to take place in something that is a
       22    foreign country.
       23             When examining this question and to illustrates its
       24    nontrivial character, one should look at the statutes as to
       25    which 956 is a part.  Section 956 is in a chapter of Title 18
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7138
             4A7MSAT3
        1    called foreign relations.  And many of the statutes in that
        2    chapter date back to the dawn of the republic.
        3             And indeed provisions that are contained in these
        4    statutes are the provisions that Chief Justice Marshall was
        5    referring to in construing provisions about arming ships and
        6    what was neutral and what was not in the Charming Betsy.  For
        7    example, Section 961 does not refer to a foreign country.  It
        8    says:  Foreign prince or state, or of any colony, district, or
        9    people, or belonging to the subjects or citizens of any such
       10    prince or state; that is to say, a much broader term than the
       11    term the pleader in the grand jury has chosen here, which is
       12    country.
       13             And in Cheung itself the issue there was whether Hong
       14    Kong possessed sufficient attributes of sovereignty to be a
       15    foreign government within the meaning of the Extradition Act.
       16    And within the meaning of that act, which is not a criminal
       17    statute, of course, subject to the canon of lenity, the court
       18    said that Hong Kong did, in part, because the president of the
       19    United States had sent to the Senate a treaty of extradition
       20    with Hong Kong which the Senate ratified, recognizing that at
       21    least for the 50-year period under which China vows not to
       22    change the economic system of the former crown colony that Hong
       23    Kong would possess that attribute of sovereignty.  As I say,
       24    this is a matter that has occupied the attention of scholars
       25    and it is nontrivial.  It occupied the attention of the
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7139
             4A7MSAT3
        1    drafters of the South African Constitution, of President Nixon
        2    in recognizing Taiwan, and so on.
        3             Let's assume that a country is not something that the
        4    government had to prove.  Let's assume that the pleader pleaded
        5    it, but for some reason the government is excused from proving
        6    it by presenting evidence.  The question of what is alleged to
        7    be the foreign country is a vital concern here because other
        8    principles of international law, which, as I say, ever since
        9    1804, the federal courts are bound to apply in construing
       10    statutes, become relevant to the construction of this one.
       11    Murder, kidnapping, says the indictment.  And the statute,
       12    Section 956, speaks of murder, kidnapping or maiming.  Murder,
       13    kidnapping, or maiming are legal terms of art that refer to
       14    homicide detention and wounding.  Homicide detention and
       15    wounding would be the neutral terms.
       16             If you look at the statutes of chapter 45 we see that
       17    there are many, many instances in which people can agree to
       18    kill, wound, and detain people in a foreign country.  And
       19    whether or not someone is empowered to kill, detain or wound
       20    people in a foreign country depends on where that place is.
       21    For instance, there is a recognized canon of international law
       22    that a state, as a matter of customary international law,
       23    cannot interfere in a civil war in another country.  By not
       24    interfering in a civil war in another country, one might well
       25    say that that would include not choosing to prosecute one group
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7140
             4A7MSAT3
        1    of people who are planning to go abroad and do something, but
        2    not prosecute others.
        3             And I think everybody in the courtroom is well aware
        4    that there are groups of people in the United States today who
        5    are preparing, who are training, who are doing things with the
        6    benign neglect of the United States to do things in various
        7    other countries.  And the justification on international law,
        8    for example, for not interfering with the planning of Cuban
        9    emigrates to reenter their country could only come about if we
       10    consider it to be lawful under international law because the
       11    United States says that there are certain kinds of killing,
       12    wounding, and detaining in other countries that as to which our
       13    government simply has to kind of take a hands-off position.
       14             This is an unusual concept to talk about because when
       15    one reflects that the United States now, and London in the 19th
       16    century, were places where all men were emigrates used to get
       17    together and talk, it isn't so surprising after all.  Unless we
       18    are told what country, we can't make a defense as to which we
       19    would be entitled under international law, which is well in
       20    that country.  There is a civil war exception or perhaps one
       21    would say that it is not a foreign country because it is a
       22    failed state.  Is a failed state, a foreign country possessing
       23    sufficient attributes of sovereignty to be covered under 956.
       24    What is a failed state?  United States considered naming Iraq
       25    as a failed state simply to deprive it of juridical personality
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7141
             4A7MSAT3
        1    and thus to be able to repudiate its debts.
        2             There are other cases that one can imagine, not
        3    particularly relevant here, but that it seems to us go vitally
        4    to the interpretation of this statute, including the Article II
        5    power of Congress to grant others of mark and reprisal.  But
        6    all of that is discussed in the Charming Betsy case.
        7             In looking up this issue, I looked at Judge Brinkema's
        8    decision, which was not before the Court.  She decided it, but
        9    for some reason we didn't have it, back in March of 2004 in
       10    United States v. Kahn, which is cited in the letter that I've
       11    handed up to the Court.  And in Kahn the government did charge
       12    that those defendants were involved in violating 2339 -- I
       13    can't remember if it was (a) or (b) because they went and they
       14    were going to do something in India, a country with which the
       15    United States was at peace.  And that was a part of the statute
       16    there charged and Judge Brinkema made the charge that indeed
       17    India was the place and United States was at peace with India.
       18             Now, let's assume that it is not something that the
       19    government has to prove.  Let's assume that it is not something
       20    the government has to name because it might give rise to a
       21    defense under international law.  Why else?  Why should we do
       22    it?
       23             This is a segue to some of the broader considerations
       24    that are here.  The last group of exhibits that we had here
       25    reflects the terrible danger that all of these defendants face,
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7142
             4A7MSAT3
        1    a danger which from time to time we have said that no limiting
        2    instruction can save them from.  And that is the danger, that
        3    this case will, in the juror's minds, be a case about them
        4    versus us, a case that somehow there is a Muslim conspiracy out
        5    there to kill all the Christians and the Jews, that Osama Bin
        6    Laden is a part of it and that anybody connected in any way
        7    with it must be involved.  It is the same kind of error that we
        8    had to struggle so hard to liberate ourselves from in the 1950s
        9    when the rubric was the worldwide communist conspiracy.
       10             And the concepts then were tried to be directed to
       11    individual defendants like Mr. Noto and Mr. Scales and the
       12    defendants in Yates, all of those cases we have talked about
       13    with your Honor.  This is -- the risk here is that the jurors
       14    will see this international conspiracy to fight the enemies of
       15    God or somebody's version of enemies of God, and will think or
       16    believe that that's the conspiracy, that it is a worldwide
       17    amorphous, vague conspiracy.
       18             And, of course, the next step is that since we read
       19    about it every day and since all the candidates for major
       20    public office speak in terms as though it existed, how can
       21    Ms. Stewart not know that it exists?  We can argue that she
       22    certainly can't know that it exists because she reads the New
       23    York Times.  After all, the Times and the other papers are not
       24    admitted for the truth of what is in there.  They are admitted
       25    only for her knowledge, intent, and state of mind.
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7143
             4A7MSAT3
        1             But she is not on trial just for her knowledge,
        2    intent, and state of mind, although that is relevant to the
        3    case.  She is on trial and can be convicted, if at all, because
        4    an act was committed.  The act in a conspiracy case, whether it
        5    be Count 1, Count 2, or Count 4, is the act of agreement.  And
        6    Judge Friendly wrote in Borelli of this terrible risk that
        7    people are likely to confuse the group of people doing things
        8    with this understanding if the agreement is the essence of the
        9    offense.
       10             So the vagueness that is attended by excusing the
       11    government from standing up and saying we said a foreign
       12    country, that's what the grand jury said, we have proved it,
       13    and, lo and behold, this is what we claim it is, makes it
       14    impossible for Ms. Stewart to defend on Count 4, either
       15    actually or as a practical matter because she can't figure out,
       16    and we can't talk to this jury about what she was and was not
       17    aware of if the government hasn't told us this is what you're
       18    supposed to be aware of, this is what you are charged with
       19    being aware of, this is the place where it occurred, and these
       20    were the people that are doing it.
       21             Now, that is to say, in order for her to desire that
       22    any of the charged conspiracies succeed -- and I'm talking
       23    particularly about the Count 4 one, although it goes to all of
       24    them, she has to know what it is.  This leads me then to this
       25    somewhat broader view of conspiracy and what this case, from
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7144
             4A7MSAT3
        1    our perspective, is about.
        2             It is two and a half years since I first -- almost two
        3    and a half years since I first appeared before your Honor in
        4    this case, two and a half years since I met Ms. Stewart for the
        5    first time.  Throughout the case the government has worn the
        6    mantle of antiterrorism, and I trust that this Court doesn't
        7    accord that any more weight than simply an identification of
        8    these prosecutors as engaged in an important public function.
        9             And the Court has consistently respected the fact that
       10    we on our side are as much charged with fighting terrorism,
       11    fighting invasion of rights, fighting the unlawful exercise of
       12    power as are the government lawyers, and we, too, recognize --
       13    and I certainly do personally, based on my own experience --
       14    that Luxor, with which we are not charged, but it was
       15    unequivocally a violation of secular and biblical law.
       16             And as I've said to the Court, for 30 years I've been
       17    representing the victims of terrorism.  I think there is a
       18    fundamental difference of view here.  There are groups in the
       19    world who seek to change the policies of their government and
       20    of adjacent governments by resorting to violence.  That is
       21    true.  And some of that violence violates the laws of their own
       22    country or the country in which they seek to do their conduct.
       23    And nation's states acquire the obligation to render to the
       24    appropriate sovereign fugitives who are said to have violated
       25    those laws.
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7145
             4A7MSAT3
        1             But there are equally provisions of law that say that
        2    those who have planned and who execute violence are excused
        3    from criminal liability.  I have mentioned some of those
        4    provisions, Civil War.  I filed with the Court previously
        5    evidence that CIA agents routinely kidnap people.  We have had
        6    Judge Livingston's decision that there is torture and nobody is
        7    punished for it under the laws of Egypt.  I cite in the papers
        8    Chief Justice Story's opinion in the Amistad, which is very
        9    interesting, but the Amistad took place in the context of an
       10    international incident involving Spain, Portugal, and the
       11    United States, and he said that as a matter of the law of
       12    nations, those defendants, those Africans could not be punished
       13    for piracy.
       14             These people, who are these people that are going to
       15    do violence, they have the right to counsel.  They have the
       16    right to counsel not only to defend them when they are charged,
       17    but inevitably people who discuss the prospect of activity that
       18    may hurt others, often consult lawyers.  And I am not going to
       19    repeat all of the examples we gave in our papers about the
       20    autonomy to which lawyers are entitled.
       21             But there is a chasm here between our position and the
       22    government's about this.  The Court may recall the debate over
       23    the Cutack Commission report in 1982.  And it was the position,
       24    for example, of the business round table in Weil Gotshal
       25    representing them that lawyers should be able to meet with the
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7146
             4A7MSAT3
        1    corporate client, for example, planning the issuance of a new
        2    drug to treat arthritis.  That was their favorite example.  And
        3    the container was either going to be child proof or not.  And
        4    if it was child proof, the arthritis sufferers couldn't open
        5    it.  But if it wasn't, children might open it and might be sick
        6    or die.
        7             And the question of what the company's liability would
        8    be in that instance was something that was regarded as within
        9    the lawyer's function, and the reporter's recommendation to the
       10    contrary was rejected; that is to say, people meet with lawyers
       11    under circumstances where they discuss harm.  The president of
       12    the United States has lawyers who say, well, you can do
       13    torture, but you can't have people stand up for more than a
       14    certain number of hours per day.
       15             With specific reference to this case, I have never
       16    been in a case regarding a public figure, your Honor, in which
       17    you didn't read the newspapers or provide the newspapers or see
       18    that the newspapers were provided to the client so the client
       19    could make intelligent determinations.  And yet the government
       20    is saying that's a violation of the SAMs.  I have never been in
       21    a case where an incarcerated client, or isolated, where we
       22    didn't provide information about the client's supporters and
       23    people who were outside who might have something to do with
       24    providing professional legal services; in this case, getting
       25    the Sheikh to a prison in another country.
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7147
             4A7MSAT3
        1             And to read the SAMs as prohibited, the provision of
        2    legal services in these ways is at war with the autonomy of
        3    lawyers in the sense that I have described it as the matter of
        4    the proof in this case.  It is also at war with basic
        5    principles of federalism as I have pointed out in my memorandum
        6    in support of the motions to dismiss.
        7             An illustration of how far the government is willing
        8    to go to catch Lynne Stewart is, we found out that some of
        9    these newspaper articles, which had to did with Sheikh Abdel
       10    Rahman's situation, people in Egypt, in an ongoing situation
       11    where there really was discussion about getting him out of the
       12    United States and into an Egyptian prison, they had to stand up
       13    and say or they had to claim that because Ramsey Clark, the
       14    former Attorney General of the United States, said you can do
       15    that and that's okay and I signed the SAM and I say you can do
       16    it, he must be a conspirator, too.
       17             And Abdeen Jabara, founder of the American
       18    Antidiscrimination Committee, he said you could do it and he
       19    surely understood and he has got to be a coconspirator, too.  A
       20    theory that criminalizes lawyer conduct in that way that
       21    broadly simply has to be wrong because it is fraught not simply
       22    with the peril that the lawyers have shown, but with the idea
       23    that a group of Assistant United States Attorneys can now
       24    redefine what it means to practice law.  It is interesting.
       25             In this town it used to be the terrorists were the
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7148
             4A7MSAT3
        1    IRA.  There were these trials and there were these people that
        2    Mr. Doherty, who was there, Judge Sprizzo says he couldn't be
        3    extradited.  One of the great lawyers that represented all
        4    these alleged terrorists and who stood up and spoke to the
        5    Northern Irish Aide was Paul O'Dwyer.  The reason I thought of
        6    this, I was having coffee yesterday morning and I looked across
        7    the street and they named the street in front of the courthouse
        8    after him.  And then Mayor Dinkins named the street over by the
        9    MDC Joe Doherty Way until Mayor Giuliani took the sign down.  I
       10    don't say that lightly or make a pleasantry.  It is to talk
       11    about context and talk about the risks we feel we face.
       12             Now, that brings me to the other part.  Your Honor
       13    held conformably to Dennis and Bryson that we would not be able
       14    to make a frontal challenge to the validity of the SAMs, just
       15    that the Dennis defendants were not able to challenge in their
       16    371 conspiracy to defraud prosecution, the constitutionality of
       17    section 9(h) of the Taft-Hartley act, and that's the law of the
       18    case.
       19             But there is no case under Section 371 that deprives a
       20    defendant of the right at motion for judgment of acquittal time
       21    of the ability to make and have interpreted a First Amendment
       22    argument about the content of particular expression, especially
       23    when that particular expression consists of speech that relates
       24    to core concerns.  Speech that relates to core concerns may at
       25    times be very, very violent indeed, it being recognized that
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7149
             4A7MSAT3
        1    people who are the victims of torture, summary execution,
        2    hostage taking, all of the things that have been laid at the
        3    feet of the Egyptian government and in a judgment to which the
        4    United States was a party and did not appeal and is therefore
        5    bound by, in some sense of the word, that they may react in
        6    certain ways.  That's just a reality, your Honor, and we have
        7    cited Hess v. Indiana, kill the pigs, kill the pigs.  We have
        8    cited Yates.  We have cited Watts.  If you give me a gun, I
        9    want to kill the president.  There are a lot of not pretty
       10    things that are said by people who are engaged in this kind of
       11    struggle.
       12             We recognize that in the very case in the Second
       13    Circuit, the Rahman case, the court said, well, no, not
       14    standing in the kitchen with Mr. Salem and saying blow things
       15    up.  That's not what that is about.  Once we get all this
       16    newspaper reading and so on out of the way -- again, I say -- I
       17    represented, your Honor, the only city member of the United
       18    States Senate ever to have been acquitted by a jury, and the
       19    idea that in the course of preparing that case we couldn't read
       20    the newspapers every day would be surprising.
       21             What did Ms. Stewart do?  Let's look at the statement.
       22    Let's look at that.  She goes to the prison.  She has a
       23    discussion.  Mr. Yousry translates before what he is going to
       24    read.  That is what the approved by means.  Ms. Stewart and
       25    Mr. Yousry don't want the guards to interrupt them.  So the
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7150
             4A7MSAT3
        1    fact that he is doing a lot of talking and she is not, she does
        2    engage in some behavior that make sure the guards don't listen
        3    in.  She remarks there seems to be a lot of guards around
        4    today.
        5             I hope the government doesn't continue to persist on
        6    that point, because I might have to turn myself in.  Because
        7    every time I have ever gone to a prison in a high-profile case,
        8    I have tried to do things to keep the guards from hearing what
        9    we talk about.  I regard that as normal, whether it is to take
       10    a radio in or write things or not say things or even say things
       11    that divert.  We take that and put it to one side.
       12             Let's see what happens at that visit.  This is a
       13    conversation in Government Exhibit 1711, your Honor, at page 31
       14    of the transcript provided to us.  And that's the May 20
       15    conversation.  And that's at a point where they are discussing
       16    what Abu Yasir wants.  And at page 31, line 3 Mr. Yousry says:
       17    Abu Yassir is asking unintelligible, wants your approval that
       18    he can escalate with the media and try to rearrange the
       19    thinking of.  Escalate with the media.  Concerning what?  The
       20    initiative completely.
       21             Line 9:  Tell him, yes, I agree, but not to cancel it.
       22    He should not cancel it all together, not to void it.  He can
       23    go ahead and escalate, referring to escalating with the media.
       24             Then Ms. Stewart on the 14th of June 2000 talks to
       25    Mr. Salaheddin and says that the Sheikh withdraws his support
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7151
             4A7MSAT3
        1    for the initiative or cease fire or whatever, withdraws his
        2    support.
        3             Let's take it that indeed those are the exact words
        4    that she said.  Let's understand the context in which the
        5    Sheikh is told in prison that the government has once again
        6    started killing people and summarily executing them and taking
        7    hostages, and minors are being tried by military courts and so
        8    on.
        9             What does that lead to, your Honor?  The government
       10    promised us that we were going to get a command to pick up the
       11    guns.  Nobody in Egypt interpreted it as a command to pick up a
       12    gun in the sense that nobody picked one up.  The first thing
       13    that happened was that Montasser al-Zayyat and the brother in
       14    prison said that can't be impossible.  Six days later there is
       15    a clarification where the Sheikh says, I'm not supporting this
       16    thing anymore, but I certainly didn't cancel it.
       17             And then in one of these wonderful vindications of
       18    John Stewart Mills, a theory of freedom of expression, more
       19    speech does the job.  Because in fact the questions that Sheikh
       20    Omar Abdel Rahman was quoted by Ms. Stewart as raising leads to
       21    a reaffirmation of the initiative.  That's the First Amendment.
       22             As far as the fake fatwah is concerned, she didn't
       23    have anything to do with it.  When she heard about it, she was
       24    surprised.  If he is for it, well, that's it; I'm for it, is
       25    the language that's quoted.
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7152
             4A7MSAT3
        1             The idea that you stick people with particular words
        2    in casual conversation is a strange one.  The likely meaning is
        3    if she did it she would have to defend it.  She never did
        4    anything about it or spread it or anything else.  That doesn't
        5    quite seem fair.
        6             Then, of course, there is the statement about insulin,
        7    your Honor, which the government is also relying.  Wow.  The
        8    son and the wife of the Sheikh get concern about his medical
        9    treatment.  A guard at the prison says he is not taking his
       10    insulin.  Ms. Stewart is barred from seeing her client.  She
       11    has no idea what's happening except that she does know from her
       12    experience that a number of things have happened in that prison
       13    that are very disturbing, that the Sheikh, they approach him
       14    when he is naked, they look at his body.  They do things that
       15    are insulting to a Muslim.
       16             Dr. Edward, he doesn't even know what Hallal food is.
       17    I am not going to go into all of the details.  There is some
       18    failure of communication.  Dr. Edward, he did say that.  As far
       19    as Ms. Stewart is concerned, she doesn't know anything.
       20    Mr. Sattar is calling her.  What does she say?  Nobody on the
       21    outside knows.  What is she supposed to do?  Tell us what is
       22    her legal duty when she hears third-hand hearsay about
       23    something that is attributed to her client?
       24             Can it really be said she has an enforceable legal
       25    duty to intercede in a matter where she is prohibited from
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7153
             4A7MSAT3
        1    seeing her client to make sure that no false reports get to the
        2    press?  Is it now a federal crime to say things in public that
        3    arguably might cause danger?  We can all think about that for a
        4    minute.  In a day and time when there are so many revelations
        5    about so many things that were said to the press that have
        6    caused the deaths of so many and turned out to be false, it
        7    does not lie with this executive branch, your Honor, to give us
        8    lessons on telling falsehoods to the media.
        9             In short, your Honor, nothing in the history of 371,
       10    not the Klein case, not Professor Goldstein's wonderful article
       11    about the Klein case, or any of the other cases says that we
       12    can't look at the First Amendment here.  And if we can't, we
       13    suggest that we must.  I note this, your Honor.  In the Cosa
       14    Nostra cases the government usually had an expert that would
       15    say, you know, this is the Cosa Nostra.  This is how they are
       16    organized.  These are the dangers they create.
       17             THE COURT:  The government knows I have not been a fan
       18    of experts such as that subject.  There was no effort to
       19    introduce such an expert and it is simply not in a case.
       20             MR. TIGAR:  Your Honor, I take seriously what your
       21    Honor says.  Had there been one, I would have been the first
       22    one to say, under the Second Circuit's recent decisions, the
       23    expert can't testify.  Then we ask ourselves, what is the
       24    evidence, what is the evidence about conditions in Egypt that
       25    the government did introduce?  Well, there is Judge
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7154
             4A7MSAT3
        1    Livingston's opinion about the torture.  There is Judge
        2    Livingston's opinion that the FBI overvalues its intelligence
        3    sources.  There are human rights country conditions reports.
        4    There is the State Department's own report.  The government
        5    introduced two State Department reports in evidence but didn't
        6    read them to the jury.  You know what those reports say, your
        7    Honor?  The Egyptian people have no meaningful opportunity to
        8    change their government by peaceful means.  Two government
        9    exhibits.
       10             I represented people.  I sat in rooms in South Africa
       11    with people that I knew also were engaged in some way,
       12    connected in some way to the arms struggle.  That was what
       13    lawyers are supposed to do, your Honor.
       14             Finally, I'd like to talk a little bit about these

       15    1001 counts.  That's a technical thing.
       16             Excuse me, your Honor, one more thing.  Judge
       17    Brinkema's opinion in the Kahn case is very, very interesting
       18    to me because those defendants were charged with providing
       19    personnel in the same way that we are.  And Judge Brinkema
       20    discusses humanitarian law, that case.  In that case she
       21    defines the provision of personnel in her discussion of 956 and
       22    the 2239 in terms of these people going to a training camp and
       23    learning how to fire rifles and picking up guns, training in
       24    the United States using paintball instead of real weapons.
       25             I suggest to the Court that Judge Brinkema's analysis
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7155
             4A7MSAT3
        1    of the providing personnel part of this offense is worthy of
        2    study.  And I suggest also that in the context of my discussion
        3    of the issues the government has failed to prove that
        4    Ms. Stewart provided the Sheikh to a conspiracy.  That's an
        5    offshoot of my argument about vagueness, provided the Sheikh to
        6    a conspiracy.  By issuing the statement on June the 14th, 2000?
        7    I have talked about that.  Thereafter, she was barred for that
        8    whole time from August to the following July when she sees him
        9    again, so there couldn't be any providing about that.  In
       10    short, your Honor, we submit the government has failed the
       11    proof.
       12             The 1001s.  The interesting thing, your Honor, about
       13    the May 19 and 20 prison visit is that during one of those
       14    tapes your Honor can see a document on the table, on the white
       15    table cloth and, lo and behold, if you zoom in on it, as I saw
       16    it go by, it is the SAM affirmation that Ms. Stewart has
       17    already signed.  If that's what that evidence shows, and we say
       18    that it is, she arrived at the prison in Rochester having
       19    signed the SAM.  On or about May 16, the SAM affirmation was
       20    signed.
       21             Now, it is at page 31 of 1711 that we have Sheikh
       22    Abdel Rahman saying, well, I want to do this, I want to tell
       23    this to Abu Yassir, this, that, and the other thing.  So if we
       24    discard this idea of making everybody a conspirator about
       25    reading newspaper articles, and if that's the SAM that she
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7156
             4A7MSAT3
        1    allegedly -- that's the false statement, that SAM is the false
        2    statement.  The SAM affirmation, first of all, it refers to an
        3    invalid SAM.  The SAM that came attached to the affirmation was
        4    the December '99 SAM which only lasted 120 days, and so that
        5    couldn't be violated.  It then has the typo and everyone says
        6    well, that's just a typo.
        7             We still insist on those points, but fine.  The
        8    affirmation is in three parts:  One, the past tense; two, the
        9    present tense; and, three, the future tense.  And the Court
       10    dealt with this issue in the Shah discussion, in the Shah case.
       11    You said they had to prove the times she signed it she intended
       12    to violate it.  That simply is an inference that doesn't hold
       13    water.  She had the signed SAM with her at the visit.  She had
       14    signed it before.  And there simply is not a line, not a word
       15    of evidence that she pondered the idea of issuing any media
       16    statement until after she left the prison and indeed until
       17    after she had a meeting with Mr. Jabara and Mr. Clark until
       18    after she talked about it, until somebody came to her office.
       19    They called Mr. Salaheddin on the 14th.  The same thing could
       20    be said about Count 7.
       21             THE COURT:  I'm sorry?  The reporter didn't get it.
       22             MR. TIGAR:  The same thing could be said about Count
       23    7, your Honor.  We have cited cases and I have spoken longer,
       24    perhaps, than people do in Rule 29(a) motions, being thought in
       25    some places as kind of a vestigial rambling, and I never
                            SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
                                      (212) 805-0300
                                                                           7157
             4A7MSAT3
        1    thought of them as such, and I know the Court does not.
        2             From the outset I appreciated the opportunity to serve
        3    in this case because I saw it as a test of the most important
        4    values that have surrounded not just political society, but my
        5    profession.  And that's why I appreciate the opportunity,
        6    regardless of the outcome today, to address the Court again on
        7    these issues.  Thank you.