11555 514MSAT1 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 1 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK 2 -------------------------------------x 2 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, 3 3 v. S1 02 Cr. 395 (JGK) 4 4 AHMED ABDEL SATTAR, a/k/a "Abu Omar," 5 a/k/a "Dr. Ahmed," LYNNE STEWART, 5 and MOHAMMED YOUSRY, 6 6 Defendants. 7 -------------------------------------x 7 8 January 4, 2005 8 9:40 a.m. 9 9 10 10 Before: 11 HON. JOHN G. KOELTL 11 12 District Judge 12 13 13 APPEARANCES 14 14 DAVID N. KELLEY 15 United States Attorney for the 15 Southern District of New York 16 ROBIN BAKER 16 CHRISTOPHER MORVILLO 17 ANTHONY BARKOW 17 ANDREW DEMBER 18 Assistant United States Attorneys 18 19 KENNETH A. PAUL 19 BARRY M. FALLICK 20 Attorneys for Defendant Sattar 20 21 MICHAEL TIGAR 21 JILL R. SHELLOW-LAVINE 22 Attorneys for Defendant Stewart 22 23 DAVID STERN 23 DAVID A. RUHNKE 24 Attorneys for Defendant Yousry 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11556 514MSAT1 1 2 (Trial resumed) 3 (At the side bar) 4 THE COURT: I could have done this from the bench. 5 Mr. Fletcher tells me it is going to be another 15 minutes or 6 20 minutes while the jurors finish filling out their menus. I 7 just wanted to come out and let you know that so you weren't in 8 anticipation of imminently beginning. 9 MR. TIGAR: Thank you very much, your Honor. 10 (Recess) 11 (At the side bar) 12 THE COURT: Mr. Fletcher advises me that there is 13 rumbling and frustration about the food. And there are some 14 jurors who prefer one restaurant, other jurors who prefer 15 another. Going to two restaurants on any day presents 16 logistical problems. Jurors may get their foods at different 17 times. I've asked Mr. Fletcher -- the jurors are filling out 18 the menus from one restaurant today. I've asked Mr. Fletcher 19 if in order to keep the jurors satisfied, if we could order 20 from two restaurants so that the jurors would get -- each of 21 the jurors would get the food that they most prefer. 22 Mr. Fletcher will have to tell the jurors that we will keep the 23 food until all the food has arrived and that may result in some 24 jurors not getting as hot meals, but I don't want to see food 25 coming in at separate times. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11557 514MSAT1 1 This will occur during jury deliberations also if they 2 order from two restaurants. They all should be getting the 3 food at the same time. It is not as much of a problem during 4 summations. The food can be kept until both restaurants have 5 delivered, but Mr. Fletcher should advise the jurors that if 6 they are ordering from two restaurants, some jurors are not 7 going to be getting the food -- we will hold the food until it 8 all comes. I bring that to your attention. 9 MR. TIGAR: Thank you, your Honor. 10 THE COURT: We are also going to try, as I've 11 indicated to you before, to have a buffet of some sort catered 12 for them, but that takes some time to arrange. 13 MR. TIGAR: We appreciate what Mr. Fletcher is doing. 14 It is a very difficult situation. The parties I'm sure do not 15 want to know how the jurors stand divided on the question of 16 which restaurant they prefer. 17 THE COURT: I just wanted to always keep you advised 18 of all juror issues. I hope that they will have finished the 19 menus soon. I know that you're anxious to begin, you're 20 anxious to continue. 21 MR. STERN: I will be here whenever they are ready. 22 THE COURT: Okay. 23 (Recess) 24 MR. STERN: Judge, if you could give us one second. 25 We are just waiting Elda to come back. She runs the stuff. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11558 514MSAT1 1 Judge, thank you. She is back. 2 THE COURT: All right. Call in the jury. 3 (Jury present) 4 THE COURT: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. It is 5 good to see you all. 6 Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to continue with 7 the summations. I've already given you instructions with 8 respect to summations and you continue to apply them to all of 9 the summations. 10 Mr. Stern, you may proceed. 11 MR. STERN: Thank you. 12 We began yesterday with the opinion of Sheikh Rahman 13 about whether or not Mohammed Yousry was part of the inner 14 circle. Put on your headphones again and hear what he has to 15 say about that. It is very, very brief. 16 (Recording played) 17 MR. STERN: That's it. Now, if that's all there was 18 in the case you would say, yeah, that's cute, it is one small 19 moment, but we know how deeply emersed he really is in the 20 business of conspiracy. But everything in this case shows you 21 that that's just not true. We have gone through letters. We 22 have gone through messages being brought into the prison. 23 Everything you hear and more that you will hear today backs up 24 the Sheikh's opinion of whether or not Mohammed Yousry is part 25 of a conspiracy if there even is one, if they are part of the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11559 514MSAT1 1 inner circle, is entitled to hear what the Sheikh at least 2 wants to happen. 3 Now, a lot has been made in this case of press 4 releases. The government has said, well, we know that 5 Ms. Stewart issued a press release and we know that Mohammed 6 Yousry was in the prison with her when the Sheikh dictated that 7 press release. And he should have known, something should have 8 gone off in his head, wait a minute, this is a bad thing. This 9 is the time when he should say no. That's the government's 10 position. But you have to look back at the history of the case 11 and what you know about it to see if that's borne out, to see 12 if you were in Mohammed Yousry's shoes, you would have said at 13 that moment, this is so out of the ordinary, this is so unusual 14 that even though I'm just the interpreter, I better stand up to 15 these lawyers, stand up to Lynne Stewart, who you know is not 16 easy to stand up to, and say, no, I will not participate in 17 this. 18 Let's talk about the history of these lawyers in 19 bringing out statements from the Sheikh or about the Sheikh in 20 prison. You know that in 1997, Ramsey Clark issued a statement 21 in favor of a ceasefire. That's MY-516-T. And in that article 22 Ramsey says: These are the words of the Sheikh. When you read 23 the article, you will see that the person who writes it, a 24 person named Kashoggi says verbatim, this is what the Sheikh 25 said. And the government says to you, well, it is true that SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11560 514MSAT1 1 that was done, but it is not really a problem because we 2 altered the SAMs later on. We changed it to make it clear that 3 you couldn't do that. 4 Those SAMs, of course, were never given to Mohammed 5 Yousry. And you know that this kind of thing with Ramsey, 6 Mr. Clark, went on over and over and over again. If you look 7 at what is 518 and 507 in evidence, an article in which Ramsey 8 Clark goes to Egypt and the photo along with it is Ramsey Clark 9 sitting at a table with Muntasir al-Zayyat, who was the 10 Sheikh's lawyer in Egypt, with the Sheikh's son, Abdullah, and 11 giving a press conference about the Sheikh. And you know that 12 this was a common practice because if you look at MY-10001-CT, 13 184 through 186, that's Mohammed Yousry's notebook. 14 You will see that Ramsey Clark went with him to prison 15 and gave to the Sheikh questions an Italian newspaper wanted 16 answered. The paper was called Corriere de la Sierra. He 17 talks about the size of the paper and they are asking all 18 political questions. Take a good look at it. They are asking 19 questions about the Sheikh's opinion on this and the Sheikh's 20 opinion on that. And Mohammed Yousry is there translating. 21 And the message he is getting is, this kind of thing must be 22 okay. No one ever said, Ramsey you're in trouble, don't do 23 that anymore. 24 And so Yousry was never told you're in trouble, don't 25 do that anymore. Abdeen Jabara, he is not here. He didn't SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11561 514MSAT1 1 testify. But the government tells you, he is the one who 2 follows the rules. When Yousry is with him he is constantly 3 talking about going to the press. July 25 of 2000, well after 4 the SAMs talk about not doing these kinds of things, he says: 5 I am going to speak with the Arab press and Newsday. And this 6 can be found at MY-1206-X3. It is from July 25 of 2000. And 7 if I can find it, I will tell you what he says. This is what 8 he says. Mr. Jabara: We are going to make a big stink about 9 this, Sheikh. I'm -- I'm going to tell him right now, but we 10 are going to do something about this. It is outrageous. He is 11 talking about the Sheikh's prison conditions, that other people 12 on high-profile cases have more rights than the Sheikh does. 13 Mohammed Yousry is saying Mr. Abdeen is telling you that he 14 will try to submit this. And Mr. Jabara is saying it is 15 outrageous. We need to get a journalist, however, who can 16 expose this whole thing, right. Then there is glitches so you 17 can't hear what Mr. Yousry says. Jabara says who is it. 18 Mohammed Bazzi. Static again. Jabara says: I'll call him, 19 I'll call him. Yousry asks: You have his card? Jabara: Oh, 20 yeah, I have it. Yousry: Mr. Abdeen is asking -- saying that 21 he wants to bring a journalist this week. I told him Mohammed 22 Bazzi of New York Newsday. Jabara says: All right. The only 23 way that the government is going to change this is that we 24 get -- do it in the Arabic press. The government says: When 25 you do it in the Arabic press, you really mean business because SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11562 514MSAT1 1 you're going to where your people are. And I suppose that's 2 true because here no one cares that much about the Sheikh. But 3 that's just what Abdeen Jabara is doing. I am going to do it 4 in the Arabic press. That's the way to give something to the 5 press. And Yousry says: Mr. Abdeen will hold a press 6 conference. And the Sheikh speaks up for the first time and 7 says wow. Yousry says: Here we go. And he laughs. And 8 Rahman says: Praise be to God. 9 Of course, that's not the only time that Abdeen Jabara 10 does something like that. If you look at MY-1231-X1 from June 11 11 of '01, it happens again. Jabara says: Yes. Tell the 12 Sheikh that I did an interview with this Hasan Abdullah, 13 Abdullah Hasan, rather. From Cairo Times, paper about the 14 Sheikh. Mr. Yousry: Mr. Abdeen is telling you, sir, that he 15 did an interview with Hasam Abdullah. I mean Jabara Abdullah. 16 OAR says: Hum. Yousry says: Abdullah Hasan, who is a 17 reporter for the Cairo Times. And Jabara says: And he 18 apparently reporter or something, perfect English. He worked. 19 Because he worked for, I don't know how long, a couple of 20 years. Journalist for Cairo Times. Cairo Times could be found 21 online if you want to look at it. Yousry says: Mr. Abdeen is 22 telling you, sir, static, for a couple of years, 23 unintelligible. And before he left Egypt he agreed to become a 24 freelancer for the Cairo Times as a journalist who writes for 25 them by piece. And the Cairo Times could be accessed on the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11563 514MSAT1 1 internet. Where is it published? Cairo Times. Yousry: On 2 the internet. OAB: On the computer. Jabara, well, no. It is 3 clear Jabara understands because he answered. No. It is 4 printed. But they also put it -- Yousry says: Mr. Abdeen is 5 telling you, sir, that the paper is printed and is posted on 6 the internet as well. Where is it published? Yousry says: Is 7 it published in Egypt? Jabara says: Yeah, in English. And 8 Yousry says: Yes, it is published in English in Egypt. 9 Of course, you know that Lynne Stewart speaks with the 10 papers. She speaks with them about the ceasefire and she has 11 told you about that. But even then, as far as Mohammed Yousry 12 knows, she is not making a decision just on her own. She has 13 spoken with the other lawyers. And Mr. Dember ridiculed that. 14 He said: Well, there is no evidence other than her word that 15 she spoke with the other lawyers. And Ramsey Clark, the 16 elderly gentleman, didn't even seem to remember it. So how 17 could it be true? But remember I remind you over and over 18 again that Mr. Dember told you, when people talk on the phone, 19 they tell the truth. That's when they are candid and open and 20 saying the truth. 21 Let's take a look at 1712X, MY-1712-X. And see what's 22 said in that conversation. It is Mohammed Yousry talking to 23 Mr. Sattar. And I'm not telling you whether -- 24 THE COURT: Hold on. There is an interruption in 25 getting something up on the screen. Is it there. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11564 514MSAT1 1 MR. RUHNKE: Seems to be okay now, your Honor. 2 MR. STERN: I'm not telling you whether Mr. Sattar is 3 honest or dishonest. That's up to their lawyers. What I am 4 telling you is the government tells you again and again and 5 again, we are showing you all these things for people's 6 knowledge, intent, and state of mind. So here is what Mohammed 7 Yousry is told on June 11, couple of days before Lynne Stewart 8 goes to the press. This is the conversation. Yousry says: So 9 people can just come out of nowhere and claim that they 10 received a letter and all that. Lynne continued to -- she 11 said -- she spoke with Ramsey and Abdeen and told them that the 12 Sheikh said this and that. And she was wondering whether or 13 not to release it to the press. Sattar says: Hum. She 14 thought about it for a long time. Finally, Ramsey and Abdeen 15 told her, if you feel like saying it, say it. 16 So Mohammed Yousry, when this statement was issued, 17 was under the impression that not just Lynne Stewart, who 18 herself is a formidable lawyer said it was okay, but the group 19 of lawyers, the lawyers who work with the Sheikh said it was 20 okay. 21 Now, the government is going to say, well, these other 22 lawyers, Abdeen Jabara, Ramsey Clark, when they issued 23 statements after affirmations and the SAMs were changed, their 24 statements were about jail conditions and that wasn't 25 forbidden, or about the Sheikh's condition, and that wasn't SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11565 514MSAT1 1 forbidden. But they weren't statements that the Sheikh said, 2 and there is a distinction. There is no question about it. 3 But is it a distinction that Mohammed Yousry, a nonlawyer, an 4 interpreter, is obliged to make? Is he the one who is supposed 5 to say, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, you're 6 asking the Sheikh how he feels, but are you going to tell the 7 press the Sheikh says this is how he feels, or are you going to 8 say, he is not well? You're asking the Sheikh if he is allowed 9 to go to prayers. 10 But are you going to say to the press, the Sheikh says 11 he is not allowed to go to prayers, or are you just going to 12 say, he is not allowed to go to prayers? If it is the first 13 thing, I told you, no, I can't do it. If it is the second, let 14 me review the law as applies to SAMs and affirmations. I'll 15 get back to you tomorrow to see if I can answer your question 16 or not. I'll get back to you tomorrow to see if I will 17 translate or not. It can't possibly happen that way. He is 18 not a decision maker. He is not a line drawer. He is an 19 interpreter. People say words to him and he relates them and 20 then the lawyers make decisions, what's appropriate or 21 inappropriate, not him. 22 Ask the government when they get back up or when 23 you're in the jury room to show you a single time, one time 24 over all these years when Mohammed Yousry, without the lawyers' 25 permission, communicated a message to the press or to anyone SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11566 514MSAT1 1 who wasn't part of the defense team, one time he did that. One 2 time Mohammed Yousry called a reporter and said: Hey, let me 3 tell you something. One time Mohammed Yousry called someone in 4 Egypt and said: Let me tell you how the Sheikh is doing. One 5 time Mohammed Yousry has in any way made the decision that 6 something should be released or not released, said or not said. 7 Never. They can't because he always did his job in good faith. 8 You've heard a lot from the government about terrible 9 incidents and terrible people. And there is no dispute between 10 us and the government about the people or the incidents. Taha 11 seems like a murderous lunatic. Atia is a member of the 12 Islamic Group who apparently wants to kill people if he can. 13 The bombing of the Cole was an abomination. The people in Abu 14 Sayyaf who kidnap people, terrible, disgraceful, disgusting. 15 But do they really add to what you need to know to 16 decide whether Mohammed Yousry is guilty or not? Does the tape 17 of Osama Bin Laden, a boogie man for this millennium, help you 18 decide if Mohammed Yousry is guilty or not guilty? None of 19 them are on trial, none of those incidents are crimes with 20 which Mr. Yousry is charged. They are dangerous people who 21 commit evil acts, but you don't have to make decisions about 22 that. 23 So let's see what they add, if anything, to your 24 decision about Mohammed Yousry, and let's start with the U.S.S. 25 Cole. You all know what it is, a bombing of a ship in Aden SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11567 514MSAT1 1 harbor. The government heads this portion of the indictment: 2 The conspiracy to threaten acts similar to the bombing of the 3 U.S.S. Cole unless Abdel Rahman is freed. Let me read that 4 again. It is the conspiracy to threaten acts similar to the 5 bombing of the U.S.S. Cole unless Abdel Rahman is freed. They 6 don't limit that, of course. Maybe they mean that Mr. Sattar 7 is in such a conspiracy. But you know that Mohammed Yousry is 8 not in any conspiracy to do anything about the Cole. 9 But what really happens is that Mr. Sattar gets this 10 call in which someone tells him, I guess Taha, hey, the Cole 11 was bombed. Maybe somehow we can use this to help out the 12 doctor. And Mohammed Yousry tells you that Sattar shows up at 13 a party all shaken up and all nervous and tells him, someone 14 told me that the Cole was in part done for the Sheikh. Now, 15 does anyone dash off a letter to the Sheikh telling him that? 16 Does anyone run to the government and say, you better free him, 17 or more ships will be bombed? No. 18 What really happens is that nine months later, in the 19 very end of a conversation, as an afterthought they talk about 20 it with the Sheikh. Of course, this is Lynne Stewart's client. 21 And this is something directly related to her client. And so 22 do they say to him, how can we best use this? No. They say to 23 him, this is ridiculous. Sattar shouldn't be involved in this 24 at all. I think Lynne says it is adventuristic of him. They 25 are saying: Maybe he is being set up, let's forget about it, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11568 514MSAT1 1 nothing should be done. When you hear this threatening title, 2 the conspiracy to threaten acts similar to the bombing of the 3 U.S.S. Cole unless Abdel Rahman is freed, ask yourselves why it 4 is given that title when what really happens is nothing. 5 The next thing is Abu Sayyaf. And Abu Sayyaf is even 6 more interesting because when they discuss Abu Sayyaf, Yousry 7 is in there doing his job, he is translating. And he brings it 8 up to the Sheikh. But he doesn't have to tell the Sheikh 9 anything about it. You know why? Because the Sheikh has 10 already been told about it. And you will see if you look at 11 Exhibit 1706X, MY-1706-X, lines 10 through 14. This is how the 12 conversation goes. It is very brief. Yousry, talking to the 13 Sheikh: Do you know also know, sir, that Abu Sayyaf of the 14 Philippines is requesting your release? Abdel Rahman: Abu 15 Sayyaf. Yousry is a little surprised: How did you know? 16 Abdel Rahman: Abdeen read it to me. 17 So what does that tell you or in what way does that 18 help you decide whether or not Mohammed Yousry is guilty? 19 Threatening, yes. It was a terrible thing. But Mohammed 20 Yousry doesn't say it is good. He doesn't say it is bad. He 21 doesn't comment on it. He just reads the news. 22 There was a letter which Sattar writes to the Sheikh 23 in which he says: I'm in semiconstant contact with IG leaders. 24 And you know what happens with that. Mohammed Yousry tells 25 Lynne Stewart the contents of that letter. He says there are SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11569 514MSAT1 1 things in here from IG leaders. Lynne says: Okay. Read it. 2 And he does. That's his job, after all. Is this another place 3 where the government says you must say no? You know, lawyers 4 do all kinds of things and lawyers at the highest level do even 5 more of all kinds of things. They negotiate to get people 6 transferred from one country to another. Ramsey Clark told 7 you: They get a treaty done sometimes in a week. 8 Mohammed Yousry is not supposed to say: What do you 9 intend to do with this? What is the legal function of this? 10 Tell me now before I translate. If he does that, every visit 11 will have to take a year. He says this is what it says, should 12 I read it? Yes. I read it. Here is what the Sheikh says. 13 And what's most interesting about that is that at a 14 time when he is not under indictment and he is not charged with 15 a crime, you know he meets with the FBI. And he tells them 16 that that visit -- I think it is May 19 -- was the first time I 17 ever knew that Sattar was in contact with leaders of the 18 Islamic Group. He didn't have to talk to the FBI at all. He 19 is an American citizen. He can say, get away from here. I'm 20 not going to talk to you. He does, of course, talk to them for 21 quite a while, for a period of months and months. He doesn't 22 hide this from them. If he thinks it is a bad thing, if he 23 hadn't said it, the government would say, well, it is 24 consciousness of his guilt. But he tells them, yeah, I had 25 this -- read this letter. That's when I knew it. That's the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11570 514MSAT1 1 first time. 2 So what does that really add to your decision? One of 3 the most interesting things, the allegations they make, what 4 they call the attempted delivery of a message to Abdel Rahman. 5 And it is interesting because the government still seems to say 6 that that is somehow a measure of Mohammed Yousry's guilt. And 7 I suppose the reason we have trials and in the end juries to 8 decide things is because we see things differently. 9 What happens on that visit? It is a visit that you 10 heard. It is a February 19, 2000 visit. It is Government 11 Exhibit 1701. And during the visit Abdeen, who is at best 12 lackadaisical, you remember the government complaining about 13 Ms. Stewart, what legal things does she really do. Abdeen 14 sleeps, among other things. Hardly the work of a lawyer. They 15 are there in part just to keep the Sheikh sane, I guess. But 16 they are just killing time while Abdeen is there. 17 At one point Abdeen gets up and he leaves the room and 18 you will recall when we played for you a long conversation in 19 Arabic that was timed. It was eight minutes. And those eight 20 minutes begin with the Sheikh saying to Mohammed Yousry, I 21 can't dictate a letter to IG in front of Abdeen, or I won't 22 dictate a letter to IG in front of Abdeen. And Yousry says 23 okay. And then he begins to read the news, the same boring 24 news he reads day after day after day. He has eight minutes. 25 Keep that in mind. He writes very well, smart person. He SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11571 514MSAT1 1 doesn't say: Sheikh, the dude is out of the room, come on, 2 tell me now. We will write it now. I'll bring it to somebody, 3 we will get it to IG, don't worry, pal. We are in this 4 together. He says: Okay. And he reads him the paper. What 5 should he have done then? What's the government's suggestion? 6 Guard, come in here immediately. He wants to write IG. No. 7 He does what he should do. Because later, Abdeen comes back in 8 the room and the Sheikh leaves to go to the bathroom. 9 Now, does he hide it from Abdeen, that the Sheikh 10 wants to write the Islamic Group? Does he try and figure out a 11 way to wait until another lawyer is there so that Abdeen can't 12 interfere with it? No. Here is what he does. And this is in 13 GX-1701. He says, whispering, Mr. Abdeen, when you went to ask 14 them about the coffee. And Jabara says what. He says: When 15 you went upstairs, when you -- you stood up to ask for coffee 16 and he told me he wants to dictate a letter to al-Gama'a 17 al-Islamiya. Jabara says no. Yousry says: I tell you what he 18 said and what he said, but he is not going to do it now because 19 of you. He said: I am not going to do it because of Abdeen. 20 I am going to do it when Lynne comes or when Ramsey comes. 21 Jabara says okay. Jabara doesn't say: By the way, don't ever 22 do that. Don't let anyone else do that. It will violate the 23 SAMs, which is the burden, of course, that the government puts 24 on Mohammed Yousry to do. Jabara says okay, you want to do it 25 with another lawyer, fine with me. Yousry says: Then they can SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11572 514MSAT1 1 take it out. I just thought to let you know, because Ahmed is 2 expecting this letter. Jabara says okay. Yousry says: 3 Because in Ahmed's letter to the Sheikh. Yousry says: And he 4 is telling him, you know, this is the summary. Usually the 5 Sheikh answers him back. That's why I told him. Tell me. 6 Ahmed is going to get upset. Jabara said hum or says something 7 unintelligible. Yousry says: So he told me. I will take it 8 to Ramsey and I give it to Ramsey and then maybe Ramsey will 9 give it to Ahmed. Jabara says no. Yousry says: The Sheikh 10 wants to wait. Jabara says: That -- that's fine. He doesn't 11 say don't wait, don't ever fight it. Yousry says: No. I'm 12 just letting you know what happened. 13 Sounds to me like he is just doing his job. He could, 14 of course, have gotten it out in many ways. He didn't. He 15 told Abdeen. Abdeen can now go to say to the other lawyers, 16 don't take this message out. It is a bad idea. Don't do it. 17 Would Yousry take that risk if he was really part of some 18 conspiracy? 19 There is one final allegation that I'd like to talk 20 briefly about and that's in the section of the introduction to 21 the indictment which describes the defendant. And they give 22 you only two facts about Mohammed Yousry. They says he is an 23 Arabic interpreter for the Sheikh's attorneys, and they say -- 24 this is a quote -- he testified as a defense witness at Abdel 25 Rahman's 1995 criminal trial. Now, you know that everything in SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11573 514MSAT1 1 an indictment is there for a reason. And when you read that it 2 has a pretty bad sound to it. Sounds like he must be pretty 3 close to the Sheikh if he is prepared to testify for him at 4 trial. 5 But as the trial goes on and it becomes clearer and 6 clearer that that's not really what happened, finally on 7 November 15, 2004, the government enters into a stipulation. 8 It is MY stip 1. And this is what it says: At the trial of 9 Sheikh Abdel Rahman, Mohammed Yousry was called by Lynne 10 Stewart, and several of the other defense attorneys, to testify 11 regarding issues of translation and interpretation of the 12 Arabic language. 13 Mr. Yousry's testimony at Abdel Rahman's trial was 14 entirely in his role as a translator. 15 It is funny that that's not in the indictment because 16 it could -- after all, he said he testified in his role as a 17 translator at the Sheikh's trial. But it doesn't. The truth 18 in this case is that Mohammed Yousry is purposely excluded from 19 a conspiracy, if one exists, and has no idea that anyone is 20 planning to kill or kidnap or anything else. How do you know 21 that? You know that much more from what was never done than 22 what I'm able to show you. You know that he never, ever calls 23 or speaks with anyone in Egypt. 24 Let him show you one call. Keep in mind, Mohammed 25 Yousry is highly intelligent, very knowledgeable, speaks Arabic SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11574 514MSAT1 1 and English fluently. Who better to actually communicate with 2 these members of the Islamic Group than Mohammed Yousry? But 3 never, not one time does he talk to any of these characters, 4 Yunis, Taha, Hamza, Muntasir, not even a member of the Sheikh's 5 family. He doesn't even call to talk to Abdullah, Mohammed, 6 the Sheikh's wives, nobody. If he is a member of some 7 conspiracy, why wouldn't they use him that way? The only 8 mention of him ever, ever in a phone conversation is as a 9 professor working on his dissertation. 10 And let's look at GX1006X. It is from January 26, 11 1999. It is a conversation between Hamza and Sattar. And 12 Hamza says, as they often do, I suppose: Peace be upon you. 13 Sattar says hello. Hamza: Peace be upon you, please go ahead. 14 Sattar: Peace and mercy of God be upon you. I have it in here 15 in front of me. Hamza: Fine. Hold on it to the end. I want 16 to ask you. Sattar: Yes. Concerning our brother, who is 17 preparing for the Ph.D., if you get from him specific 18 information about the subjects and the material which he is 19 looking for, put it in writing in a nice way. That will be 20 fine. Sattar says: God willing. Hamza says: I talked to Abu 21 Yasir. Maybe he can prepare something for the periods 1986 and 22 1992. He may try and tell this man. He doesn't even know 23 Yousry's name. Do you trust him? Is he a good brother? 24 Sattar says. Oh, yes, yes. Yousry, you can bet, if he is the 25 ambitious academic that the government claims he is, would be SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11575 514MSAT1 1 all over these guys if he had the chance to talk to them 2 personally on the phone and get quotes from them personally. 3 He would be a star. Maybe he would be the Harvard worthy 4 academic that the government says he wants to be. But he 5 doesn't because he doesn't even know that this is going on 6 until May 19. And they don't really even know who he is. They 7 just know he is the brother working on his Ph.D. 8 Is there ever a phone call where Sattar tells Yousry 9 that he is talking with members of the Islamic Group? 10 Remember, Mohammed Yousry is supposed to be in cahoots with 11 Ahmed Abdel Sattar. They are supposed to be working together 12 in some kind of conspiracy. They were listening to Sattar's 13 phone for years and years and years. They were listening to 14 Yousry's phone for three or so years, Ms. Stewart's phone for 15 three or so years, two years maybe. Let the government show 16 you one call where Sattar says: Hey, I got in contact with our 17 friend Taha. I got in contact with our friend Hamza. Guess 18 what, Atia is on the run. One call, one time when Mohammed 19 Yousry is clued into what's going on. It never happens and 20 they can't show you where it does. Maybe they will say, but 21 that letter he read on May 19 and that said Taha, and these 22 other letters, he must have known. He read and translated 23 letters as part of his job. 24 But when is he clued into what's really going on? You 25 remember some talk about diabetes and claiming the Sheikh SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11576 514MSAT1 1 wasn't getting his treatment. When is Yousry told about that? 2 If he is a coconspirator in some conspiracy or another, why 3 isn't he clued in or asked his opinion? How can we do this 4 best? 5 How about the fatwah? The government itself says a 6 primary part of this case is the fatwah to kill Jews. How 7 about telling Yousry about it if he is one of your compadres. 8 How about letting him in the on the game now? Not once. They 9 can't show you a time when that happened. Even when Sattar is 10 negotiating on behalf of IG to make peace with the Egyptian 11 government, Yousry is not told about that. 12 What is he really let in on here? Not one important 13 thing. What kind of coconspirator is that? The government has 14 talked a lot about how knowledgeable Mohammed Yousry is about 15 the Islamic Group. And that, of course, is true. He is. And 16 they have said, well, that's why you should find him guilty, 17 because he must have known. But it is another case where they 18 sort of want to have their cake and eat it. What's been going 19 on with the Islamic Group? 20 First, ask yourselves, do they really listen carefully 21 to what the Sheikh says? In 1997, Ramsey Clark takes a message 22 from the Sheikh in which he says, there should be a ceasefire, 23 a unilateral ceasefire. Three months later 58 tourists are 24 killed at Luxor, a direct repudiation of what the Sheikh had 25 just said. And from 1997 on, not one person is killed, not one SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11577 514MSAT1 1 person is hurt attributable to the Islamic Group, and Yousry 2 knows that, too. He knows the Sheikh is an aging sort of crazy 3 person. He heard the Sheikh talk about odors and all kinds of 4 things. He knows people love the Sheikh but don't necessarily 5 listen to him. And he knows that IG has been decimated, hunted 6 down by the Egyptian government, killed whenever they find them 7 and has no real power. When the government says, he should 8 know that this is going to cause deaths and kidnapping, what he 9 knows is they are not very powerful anymore. 10 There is one other thing that makes you question 11 whether or not Mohammed Yousry could really be part of any 12 conspiracy. Because conspirators by their nature have to 13 remain part of what they are doing. That is, they want to be 14 there to help the cause. But Mohammed Yousry did not. The 15 government says, oh, he was faking because he told the Sheikh 16 he should have two visits a week instead of one. But that 17 didn't mean he wanted to be the one at those two visits. And 18 we have at least two examples of him saying explicitly that he 19 no longer wants to be involved. One is from Ramsey Clark. It 20 is page 8844 of the transcript. Goes on to 8845. Ramsey Clark 21 is asked: You were asked a number of questions about 22 Mr. Yousry acting as interpreter during the trial, right, and 23 Mr. Yousry as an interpreter during the appeal, and acting as 24 an interpreter after the appeal was complete. Do you remember 25 those questions. And Mr. Clark says yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11578 514MSAT1 1 "Q Now, during the time he was acting as an interpreter, did 2 he always want to continue acting as an interpreter for the 3 Sheikh? 4 "A Well, I think it was a tremendous burden for him. I mean, 5 there were three lawyers who could talk -- four, actually, and 6 only one interpreter. And it was taking an enormous amount of 7 his time and -- but I think I'd have to say he was very 8 faithful about it. I think he hoped we could find other 9 interpreters. And we tried very, very hard, but we couldn't 10 get any approved by the government. 11 "Q And did he tell you of his hopes that you could find other 12 interpreters?" 13 Then there is an objection. 14 "Q Did he tell you of his hopes that you could find other 15 interpreters to help on the case? 16 "A Well, I knew he hoped very much that we could, because 17 that would give him some relief. 18 "Q And why didn't that happen? 19 "A That didn't happen because the government wouldn't approve 20 anyone, still hadn't." 21 We also know from Michael Gasper, who you remember was 22 his colleague when he was a graduate student and is now a 23 professor, they had conversations about the case and this is 24 what he had to say about Mohammed Yousry's eagerness to remain 25 on the case: SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11579 514MSAT1 1 "Q Now, do you know if while he was working on his 2 dissertation Mr. Yousry did any other work to support himself? 3 "A Sure. He was -- you know, he is well known. He was 4 working as a translator. 5 "Q Do you know what cases he worked on? 6 "A Not all of them. I know he worked on the, you know, 7 Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, of course. 8 "Q Did you and he ever have conversations about his work on 9 that case? 10 "A Yeah, sure, on a number of occasions. 11 "Q Did you ever have a conversation about your ability to act 12 as an -- your ability to act as an interpreter on that case? 13 "A Yeah. I mean, we discussed this a number of times. 14 Mohammed, as the years went by -- it was years really -- wanted 15 to get finished with graduate school and became increasingly 16 concerned that the work that he was doing for the -- you know, 17 for the court case was taking up too much of his time. And in 18 fact he mentioned to me on more than one occasion that -- you 19 know he said: Well, you, you know, why don't you think about 20 doing this? You know, taking my place. And I thought you 21 know, I wasn't -- not interested in doing it. But he did 22 mention it to me on a couple of occasions. He just had enough, 23 I think." 24 Hardly the way you would expect a coconspirator to 25 behave. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11580 514MSAT1 1 Something really kind of frightening happens in this 2 case. The government says to you, I'll tell you how we will 3 prove he is guilty. We are going to go through the books of 4 his home to show his true knowledge, intent, and state of mind. 5 We are going to show you all of the things he has about the 6 Islamic Group and Luxor to prove that he is guilty of these 7 crimes. We are not going to talk to Zach Lockman who we know 8 about from his phone calls. We are not going to listen to his 9 radio interview in which he says to the Sheikh, I don't agree 10 with you. We are not going to read the part of his 11 dissertation that says he is exchanging one form of 12 totalitarianism for another. We are going to go to his house 13 and we are going to look at his books and we are going to bring 14 him to you, and we are going to say, this is why you should 15 find him guilty. 16 You know what his house looks like. It is the house 17 of an academic. His office in that house is filled with books. 18 You can look at 2301L, 2301M, 2301N. They are pictures of his 19 house. And you will recall Agent Monaco. You remember who she 20 was. She was the agent who searched his home, told you, 21 although the government didn't, that there were books on Latin 22 America and books on multiculturalism and books on Jesus, all 23 kinds of books in that house. But the books they brought to 24 court to show you were all books on terrorism and the Islamic 25 Group. It is a frightening day when what we think is judged by SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11581 514MSAT1 1 the books we have. 2 If any of you have books by Mark Twain, be careful 3 because Mark Twain was accused of being a racist, the author of 4 Huckleberry Finn and Tom Sawyer. T.S. Eliot, the guy who wrote 5 the story of which the play Cats was based, was accused of 6 being a fascist. If you have his books, it doesn't make you a 7 fascist. Hemingway, the author For Whom the Bell Tolls, was 8 accused of being a communist, but having his books doesn't make 9 you a communist. 10 Even newer books, Dan Brown's the Da Vinci Code, he 11 was accused of being an anticatholic. If you read that book 12 and keep it in your home, it doesn't make you an anticatholic. 13 Even worse, maybe some of you studied in school Karl Marx's 14 Communist Manifesto, and you still have it in your home. Adolf 15 Hitler's Mein Kompf. Maybe you have a copy of the video 16 statements of Osama Bin Laden. Maybe you want to study them 17 critically. Maybe you want to understand what we have to be 18 fearful of and how we can avoid it. 19 Study should never be equated with acceptance, with 20 belief or support. If we are to find by the books or the 21 articles we read, study or possess, we may all be in trouble. 22 But this isn't just my philosophical musings about 23 books and the freedom to read what you want. You have a good, 24 concrete illustration of how dangerous it is in this case. 25 Take a look at GX, Government Exhibit 2415-3, shown to you as SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11582 514MSAT1 1 being found in Mohammed Yousry's home as an interview with an 2 IG leader. Proof of his beliefs. And that is all you're 3 shown. You're not told where it comes from, you're not told 4 what context it is in. You're just told, he has it, that must 5 mean something about him. 6 But then Professor Lockman comes in and we put into 7 evidence MY-506. It is a book, a book called Political Essays 8 from the Middle East report. And it is a mainstream book used 9 in schools everywhere where they study the Middle East. The 10 chapter Yousry has was given to him in a course. So there is 11 nothing scary, there is nothing bad, there is nothing you can 12 infer from his possession of that chapter. But the government 13 asked you to infer something bad from it. 14 We deserve to be judged by what we say and think and 15 do, not by the books we have. So what does Mohammed Yousry 16 think? Do we have to really infer what he thinks from books? 17 No. We know from many sources what he thinks from people who 18 he discussed his thoughts and feelings with long before he had 19 a motive to say these things, long before he was arrested, long 20 before he knew he was being investigated, long before he was 21 indicted or sat here in court. 22 One of the people you heard from was Professor 23 Lockman, and I think you remember who he was, really kind of a 24 brilliant cerebral guy, professor at Harvard, then a professor 25 at NYU, head of a program, given many, many grants, a SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11583 514MSAT1 1 thoughtful academic. And he knew Yousry for many years because 2 Yousry has been working on his dissertation for many years. 3 And he told you in the course of his work on his dissertation 4 he and Yousry had conversations about the Sheikh and the 5 political movement in which the Sheikh was involved. And he 6 was asked, well, what were you told? And this is what Mohammed 7 Yousry told him. Mohammed was someone who was an Egyptian, 8 believed that his country should initiate democracy, democratic 9 government, greater human rights, and did not share the kind of 10 approach to the society Egypt should be or vision of the world 11 of Abdel Rahman and his movement. 12 (Continued on next page) 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11584 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 MR. STERN: Publicly. Openly, that's how he feels. 2 We also know from a conversation he had with Michael 3 Gaspar. Michael Gaspar, I will remind you again was his 4 friend, his colleague, another academic, and this is how he 5 described Mohammed Yousry's beliefs. It is at transcript page 6 8931. I'm sorry, the last one was page 8860. 7 Michael Gaspar says, he had quite strong disdain 8 actually for, you know, sort of Islamists and Islamic politics. 9 Why would he conspire to help the Sheikh's cause? 10 You heard from Pastor Sawyer, Pastor Sawyer you 11 remember is a preacher, the preacher in Yousry's wife's church, 12 and he told you that Yousry has never interfered. 13 You heard from his daughter and you heard from Yousry 14 himself. You heard his words from before he was ever indicted 15 or charged. 16 You heard him at the very beginning when I told you he 17 said he is exchanging one form of totalitarianimity for another 18 when he said I don't think that state in Islam is religious, 19 when he said I don't agree with the Sheikh or what he stands 20 for. 21 Judge, is this a good time for a break? 22 THE COURT: We will take 10 minutes. 23 Ladies and gentlemen, please remember to follow all of 24 my instructions. Please remember, do not talk about this case 25 at all. Please remember to keep an open mind until I have SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11585 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 finally instructed you on the law and you have gone to the jury 2 room to begin your deliberations. 3 Have a good break. I will see you shortly. 4 All rise, please. 5 (Jury not present) 6 THE COURT: See you shortly. 7 (Recess) 8 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, one of the facilities is not 9 functioning. 10 THE COURT: All right. Everyone is here now. All 11 right, let's bring in the jury. 12 (Jury present) 13 THE COURT: Mr. Stern, you may proceed. 14 MR. STERN: I want to start by correcting two things I 15 told you that were wrong. One was the conversation in which 16 Mr. Sattar and Mr. Yousry talk about Lynne having discussed 17 with Ramsey and Abdeen the advisability of releasing the 18 statement was June 15th. I think I said June 11th and that was 19 incorrect. 20 Also, I talked about Ms. Stewart's phone being tapped 21 and her phone was never tapped. That was wrong. Any calls 22 that Ms. Stewart is on were either calls made to Mr. Yousry or 23 maybe -- although I don't recall this being the case -- legal 24 weekly calls, or calls made to Mr. Sattar. I think there were 25 some where you remember her talking to Lisa Sattar. So, it was SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11586 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 never on her phone. 2 Those two things were incorrect and I apologize for 3 that. 4 One of the things that you really heard very little 5 about in the government's summation was Mohammed Yousry's 6 testimony. They were glad to call him a liar and say he was 7 dishonest with you, but they didn't give you much evidence of 8 that and they didn't because there isn't evidence of that. 9 They told you he did all he could to follow the SAMs as he 10 understood them. He told you he didn't think there was 11 conspiracy to kidnap or kill much less joined it. 12 Even without his testimony, even if he had never taken 13 the stand you should find him not guilty. The government 14 doesn't have a case against him but his testimony is icing on 15 the cake. 16 Why should you believe him? People can say about 17 every defendant, he's the one with something to gain and 18 something to lose, of course would lie, therefore I won't 19 believe him. And if you say that then no one ever can testify 20 and make a difference. You have to look at him like every 21 other witness. It's true, of course, that he has something to 22 gain and something to lose but you have to evaluate what he 23 says and how he says it and what you know about him. 24 And what you know is that virtually every word he says 25 is supported by his notebooks, notebooks he made virtually SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11587 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 contemporaneously, notebooks which he couldn't possibly have 2 known would some day be shown in a court of law. 3 If you have the patience, go through his notebooks and 4 go through each visit. Go through his notebooks and go through 5 the calls and you will see that they match up. 6 So, it is not just him saying, well, this is what 7 happened, take my word for it. It is him saying this is what 8 happened and when it happened, one, two, three years ago I made 9 notes of it. That's how I remember it and that's how you know 10 it really happened that way. 11 There is something else here and that's character 12 witnesses. Now, you can say any of us could get our friends to 13 come in and say we're a good guy. And I hope that's true for 14 all of you, that you have friend that would come in and say 15 you're a good guy. But we heard from an awful lot of people, 16 from a lot of different worlds. 17 We heard from his colleague Michael Gaspar; we heard 18 from his employer at York College, Professor Coleman; we heard 19 from family and friends, Pastor Sawyer and his daughter Lesley; 20 we heard from Larry Schilling; we heard from Ramsey Clark, all 21 from different parts of his life. 22 And in the end what is character evidence? What does 23 it really mean when all these people come in and say, as far as 24 I know he's an honest person, he is a truthful person. 25 You know, as we go through life we leave footprints SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11588 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 like walking in snow and we don't look back and see where they 2 are or what they look like but they lead to us. And if we're a 3 liar in life it comes back to us one day through those same 4 footprints. And if we are truthful and honest like Mohammed 5 Yousry, that leads back to us too. 6 And you can be sure that if there were someone to come 7 in and say, well, they said he's honest and truthful, I know 8 him as a liar; the government would have brought him in here. 9 They would have put him up on the stand to say, yeah, his 10 friends say he is truthful but I know he is a liar. 11 Did you hear that? No. Because the truth about him 12 is irrefutable. He is an honest person. 13 Well, the government says we didn't do that but we did 14 prove what a liar he really is by his own words. And they say 15 they did that four ways or three ways really. They say they 16 did it with the FBI, they say they did it with his dissertation 17 notes, and they say they did it with his resumes. So, let's 18 talk about these one at a time. 19 The World Trade Centers are bombed -- one of the 20 greatest tragedies ever anywhere and certainly in the United 21 States. And a day later the FBI shows up at your door -- his 22 door. He is an Arab American man. He is working on the 23 Sheikh's case. And unannounced the FBI -- can we talk to you, 24 Mr. Yousry? He doesn't say get me a lawyer; he says, Yeah. 25 And he talks to them. And he tells them what happened at SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11589 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 meetings but the government's big knock on him was, well, you 2 didn't tell them about the Cole, did you? You didn't tell them 3 about the discussion of the Cole. 4 But what really does happen? What really happens and 5 you will see it at transcript page 9904, is that the next day 6 he calls them back. They come September 13th; September 7 14th -- and remember now that they're listening to these calls, 8 they know what's in them. 9 September 14th he calls them, not vice versa, and he 10 says, ho, I forgot something. And this is what he tells you 11 happens: 12 "Q And what did you tell the agents on September 14th 13 about what you now remember about the U.S.S. Cole as related to 14 Sheikh Rahman's case? Did you tell the agents something about 15 the Cole on September 14th? 16 "A Yes, I did. 17 "Q What did you tell the agents? 18 "A I told them what I remember, that I believe it was 19 a book signing party that was organized by Mr. Jabara and I 20 just recounted what happened to them during that particular, 21 you know, book signing party. 22 "Q And what did you relate? Tell us what you 23 related. 24 "A I told them that Mr. Jabara was holding this 25 particular book signing party for a friend of his and I was SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11590 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 there and Mr. Jabara was there, Ms. Lynne Stewart. Mr. Clark 2 was invited. I left before he came in. Mr. Sattar showed up, 3 he was shaken, he was so worried. And he was asking about 4 Mr. Jabara and he wanted to speak with him. And I'm not sure 5 if he spoke with Mr. Jabara or not but, you know, I wanted to 6 find out what was wrong with him. And he was so nervous and he 7 said that he got a call from some people claiming that they did 8 this for the Sheikh." 9 So now what's the government's beef that he didn't 10 say? And we then had a 15-second conversation nine months 11 later in which we said it was a stupid idea, let's forget about 12 it. He told them what he knew. 13 They asked him about Taha on 11/6/01, and does he hide 14 information about Taha as the government suggests? Does he 15 really say I don't know anything about him? 16 Let's look on page 9897, beginning at line 20 and see 17 what he tells them. He's asked: 18 "Q Do you remember what you told the FBI about 19 Mr. Taha and your understanding of his role? 20 "A Yes." 21 He's asked: 22 "Q What did you tell them? 23 "A Well, I told them everything I know about him at 24 the time; that he was a leader in the movement, that he led a 25 splinter after 1999, I believe, and that he was somewhere in SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11591 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 Afghanistan and that the Egyptian government, I believe, 2 received him later on from the Syrian government. 3 "Q Do you remember on April 9, 2002, following your 4 arrest, again, whether or not you sat down with the FBI or 5 spoke with the FBI and answered questions following your 6 arrest? 7 "A Yes, I do. 8 "Q And do you remember what you told the FBI on April 9 9, 2002, about your knowledge of Mr. Taha? 10 "A I don't really recall" -- 11 I'm sorry: 12 "A I really don't recall if I -- 13 "Q I will refer you to Defense Exhibit MY-1311 and 14 direct your attention particularly to page 77 of that exhibit. 15 Would you find that please, for me? 16 "A Yes, I found the page. 17 "Q Looking at the final paragraph on page 77 and 18 going into the top of page 78, do you remember what it is that 19 you told the FBI about Mr. Taha? 20 "A Yes. Yes. 21 "Q What did you tell him? 22 "A Well, I actually told him that I know most of the 23 information about Taha Musa -- that's how they referred to 24 him -- was based on my research in my doctorate dissertation 25 and I knew that he was a leader in the Islamic movement and I SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11592 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 knew that he was a leader of a splinter movement and also that 2 he was handed over to the Egyptian government. 3 "Q Did you have any discussion with the FBI whether 4 or not you were aware that Mr. Sattar was or was not in touch 5 with Mr." -- 6 Oh. I'm sorry. I should haven't read that question. 7 "Q Did you have any conversation as to your knowledge 8 of anyone else who may have actually been speaking with 9 Mr. Taha? 10 "A Yes, I did. 11 "Q What did you tell the FBI about that on April 9, 12 2002? 13 "A I told them that I was aware that Mr. Sattar was 14 indirectly in contact with Mr. Taha and I became aware of that 15 on May 19 of 2000." 16 Now, you all might think that if the FBI showed up at 17 your door unannounced a day or two after the World Trade Center 18 you would have a perfect memory of everything that had happened 19 a week ago, two weeks ago, a month ago. You can fault him for 20 not, but you can be sure that if his testimony was not true the 21 government would have called the agents who took those 22 statements and said he never told us that about Taha, he never 23 called us about the Cole. But they don't. And of course they 24 don't because they can't because his testimony was true. 25 You remember a time in his cross-examination when SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11593 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 Ms. Baker asked him endless questions about footnotes. She 2 went through footnote after footnote after footnote. And then 3 she asked him about rough notes. They weren't even a draft of 4 a dissertation, they were notes. Many of the things in them 5 were wrong, some of them were right. But what you know is that 6 those footnotes were made primarily from tapes seized in 7 Denmark, used at the Sheikh's trial in which IG members were 8 bragging after their acquittal for the Sadat murders. 9 And so she says when things are wrong in there, well, 10 that's the proof that he's a liar and he says, no, I'm an 11 academic. These are rough notes. I make these notes and later 12 I check them out to see if they're right or not. I'm not 13 saying these things are true, I'm saying that's what I read or 14 that's what I saw. 15 She says, ah, but there is this introduction where you 16 say I have spoken with IG members from all over the world. 17 It's an introduction he hopes will one day be part of his 18 dissertation but it hasn't yet come true. Does that make him a 19 liar? 20 If any of you have written a long paper or a 21 dissertation, think back and ask yourselves how you would do if 22 you were quizzed on every note you ever made; if you were asked 23 years later -- and remember, these were made I think around 24 '97 -- what about this note? What about that note? Did you 25 know it was true when you wrote it? Do you know if it's false SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11594 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 now? Which of you wouldn't falter and would it make you liars? 2 Finally and the only other thing on which he was 3 impeached are these resumes. 4 Now, I'm not making admissions myself but if padding 5 resumes is a reason to go to jail, we need a lot more jails. 6 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Stern's 7 summation should not be interrupted. Thank you. 8 Mr. Stern, you may proceed. 9 MR. STERN: In a case about terrorism and cheating the 10 government, padded resumes have no place. They don't show 11 anybody he ever gave them to, they just show that they're on 12 his computer. That's the thumb they try to put on their side 13 of the scale. 14 Above everything else you have to ask, Why in the 15 world would Mohammed Yousry do this? 16 He's here earning $200,000 a year as an interpreter. 17 He has a wife he loves, he has a wonderful daughter, he's going 18 to throw it away for what? To make life less bearable for his 19 family in Egypt? Does that make any sense? 20 Is he going to do it, as the government suggests, 21 because he wants to be a professor at Harvard? Does he even 22 behave like a person who is so ambitious he wants to go to 23 Harvard? After all, he's been working on his dissertation for 24 years and doesn't even have a draft yet. He's not exactly 25 banging down the doors of Harvard, he's happy at York College, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11595 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 until the government interferes and he gets fired. 2 He is not an ambitious academic, he is a person trying 3 to make a life for himself here. And you never hear anything 4 about him being an ambitious academic until the case begins to 5 come in and it's clear that there is no other conceivable 6 reason for him to do this. 7 You don't hear it in the opening. The government 8 didn't say when they opened, Mohammed Yousry is dying to be a 9 Harvard professor, that's why he did this. They concocted it 10 when there was nothing left and it's an insult to you for them 11 to think that you would accept that. 12 Well, that leaves us only with charges that he 13 conspired to violate the Special Administrative Measures and 14 the government says you know he knew what the Special 15 Administrative Measures said and what they required. And they 16 say that, of course because if he didn't he is not guilty. 17 They said in passing sort of, well, he doesn't really have to 18 know, he just has to know he is violating them. Okay. 19 But what you know about Mohammed Yousry is that he 20 relied on two propositions in acting on those Special 21 Administrative Measures; one, I can't speak for the Sheikh, 22 that's the attorney's job and the attorney's decision; and two, 23 everything I do with the Sheikh is subject to review by the 24 lawyers. It is they who are responsible in deciding what can 25 and cannot be done under the SAMs. That's his understanding of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11596 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 the SAMs. 2 The government says, however, they were found in his 3 home. That's proof that he read and understood them. I want 4 you all, when you are in the jury room, to take a look at any 5 one of them. This happens to be Government Exhibit 4, it is a 6 long, single-spaced, legalistic document. Take turns seeing 7 who can read through it without falling asleep and if you don't 8 fall asleep, try and explain it to one another. None of you 9 are lawyers as far as I know, try. Go ahead. Go back in the 10 jury room and say, we've read this carefully, we understand it. 11 But beyond that, what evidence is there that Mohammed 12 Yousry ever read it? You know, out of his home they took 26 13 boxes of stuff and they left at least that much there. Did he 14 read everything? Did he read it carefully and understand it? 15 There is no evidence of that. 16 There is something else. You know, we all act in life 17 in certain ways and we don't always read anything carefully. 18 Any of you who have rented a car, you go in and you check the 19 boxes you want insurance or you don't and you decide if you 20 want to bring the car back full or not. Ask each other which 21 of you has read, beginning to end, those rental agreements. 22 Which of you, when you drop your clothes off at the 23 dry cleaner read the back of the ticket to find out what's 24 going to happen if you lose your shirt? 25 Which of you, when you take your kids or grandkids to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11597 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 Six Flags, read the ticket to see what happens if your child 2 goes flying out of the roller coaster? 3 We don't. We should. We don't. 4 Now, imagine that you are standing in line at Hertz to 5 rent a car and who is there with you? Mr. Hertz. And as you 6 walk through the line and get your agreement and he says, sign 7 it, it's okay. Which of you won't and which of you would say, 8 No, I'm sorry, Mr. Hertz, I know this is your car company but 9 I'm going to read it first. 10 Ramsey Clark said the things Yousry was doing were 11 okay and he's the Mr. Hertz of the government. He's the 12 Attorney General. He was, at one time, the head of the Bureau 13 of Prisons. So, how should Yousry know that the things he was 14 doing weren't okay? 15 Well, the government says again, ah-ha, we really do 16 have him though because we found in his notebooks -- these 17 notebooks that I'm urging you to read -- proof that he read the 18 SAMs and understood them. 19 So, you should look at page 284 of the notebooks. It 20 is a page that Mr. Dember showed you only he didn't share with 21 you everything that was in it because that page, he said, is 22 proof that Yousry read the SAMs. And I say it's proof that he 23 didn't. 24 What it shows is that a lawyer was explaining to the 25 Sheikh one day what they meant and this is how it was explained SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11598 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 or mis-explained. Take a look at first thing he says. He 2 says: The Sheikh is prohibited from speaking to or 3 communicating with any other prisoners. At any rate, he could 4 be given permission to give and receive information. 5 Is that anywhere in the SAMs? Does that show he 6 really understands these SAMs? Or does it show that he really 7 doesn't and is just acting on what he has been shown? 8 The second one, the Sheikh is forbidden to send or 9 receive any information, taped or written, unless it is from 10 the lawyers. 11 Well, isn't it true that every single letter he ever 12 read in prison, everything he ever said was from the lawyers, 13 approved by the lawyers, given to him by the lawyers? 14 So, when the government tells you look at page 284, 15 that's the proof that he knowingly violated the SAMs, it proves 16 exactly the opposite. 17 You know, even the government's position that the SAMs 18 were so important to them is a purely retrospective position. 19 They look back and say, yeah, they were really, really, really 20 important; really, really, really serious documents. That's 21 why we took them so seriously that in the years from 1997 to 22 2001, when these are renewed every four months and are 23 changing, Ramsey Clark signed two SAMs. The guy is visiting, 24 he's taking two calls a week, Ramsey Clark and Larry Schilling 25 signed two SAMs. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11599 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 Now, the government wants you to say these are so, so 2 important. They didn't think so back then or they would have 3 treated them like they were. 4 Now, one of the things the SAMs do say is that the 5 attorneys are required to tell their staff about what's 6 required. If you will look at GX 906, it's a 1997 affirmation, 7 and MY-602, which is a 2001 affirmation, you will see that 8 that's what it says: I have also instructed the staff in my 9 office that the such staff are not to patch calls... 10 The other one says: I have also instructed the staff 11 in my office that such staff are not to patch calls... 12 It is up to the lawyers to tell the staff what to do 13 but you know that they don't because not one lawyer -- not 14 Ramsey Clark, not Abdeen Jabara, not Larry Schilling, not Lynne 15 Stewart -- no one says, well, I sat down with Yousry and I 16 explained to him what these required. I sat down with Yousry 17 and I read these to him. I sat down with Yousry and asked him, 18 do you have any questions because I don't want there to be any 19 problems, never. 20 Did the government say, well, we thought these were 21 very important so after we were listening in on the calls we 22 wanted to see if he was intentionally violating them so we 23 tried to inform him. We had a prison person say, by the way, 24 you can do this or you can't do that. 25 Don't let them say, Well, that would have blown the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11600 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 fact that we were listening in because they could have said it 2 was a new rule. There were new rules all the time with the 3 SAMs. But they don't do that. 4 They never asked him to sign an affirmation. Simple, 5 right? Give them to him with an affirmation like you do the 6 lawyers. Sign this, then we'll all know if you read them or 7 not. There is no rule against it, no one told you that. They 8 just didn't do it. 9 They never went to the lawyers and said, you know, we 10 have an idea that something is going on here that maybe 11 shouldn't. We want to make sure you have told all of your 12 staff what these require. No, you never heard that. 13 They never wrote Yousry a letter. Mr. Yousry, have 14 the lawyers informed you of the SAMs? Yes or no? Check box A 15 or box B? No, no. 16 Even Pat Fitzgerald, who sort of invented these SAMs 17 and was in charge of them, told you that Yousry was never 18 informed in any way, verbally or in writing, what he was 19 supposed to do, what he was expected to do. So how was he 20 supposed to know? Well, the only way he could know was by the 21 behavior and the direction of the attorneys. 22 Now, I have a question which is this: Is it okay to 23 rely on the people who were supposed to advise you how to 24 behave? Well, the government is not in a position to say no 25 because their employees do exactly that. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11601 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 You will remember who Gerard Francisco was, he 2 testified about how he sent out these SAMs. I would get them 3 and time would go by and I would send one out and either I 4 would get it back or I wouldn't. 5 And he was asked questions about doing things with 6 people and he was asked about the tasks he did: When you say 7 various other tasks, do you mean if the attorney would ask you 8 to do something within reason you would do it, right? 9 His answer, of course is, Yes. 10 He works for the attorneys. 11 Does that mean if they said to him take a gun and go 12 shoot somebody he would do it? No. It means he was never 13 asked anything like that. 14 We know also from Ms. Banout, who was one of the 15 interpreters who testified; she was the person, I think you 16 will remember, translated Sattar's calls for years and years. 17 And this is at page 3631, lines 9 through 18, she is asked: 18 "Q My question is: Do you, yourself, do legal 19 research into whether or not they had grounds to get that court 20 order? Do you yourself do that research or -- 21 "A No 22 "Q -- do you take their word for it? 23 "A No, I don't. 24 "Q You take their word for it, don't you? 25 "A Yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11602 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 "Q And there is nothing wrong" -- I think it is 2 supposed to say "with"-- "that?" 3 And the answer is "No." 4 That's because there is nothing wrong. We all accept 5 if you're not the chief, take direction from people and assume 6 that what they're telling us or leading us to do is okay. 7 We know something else which is that the government is 8 forgiving of people who act in good faith but don't do things 9 perfectly. And we know that from the testimony of Agent 10 Monaco. 11 You remember Agent Monaco. She was the one who did 12 the search of Mohammed Yousry's home. And she told you that I 13 went and I got bad information from another agent, Agent 14 Whittle, so I had to go back and get another search warrant 15 because it was for the wrong address. But I finally got the 16 warrant and then I went in and I began to take things from the 17 house. And I really only wanted to take things that were 18 allowed to be taken by the warrant. That's my job, I'm an 19 agent. I have a warrant. 20 Remember, she said it has a rider; these are the 21 things that I can take. She went in and took things that have 22 nothing to do with the warrant. She tried to justify some of 23 them but it became increasingly clear that she did. She took 24 books on Latin America, condolence letters to Yousry on his 25 father's death, books on cultural diversity, letters from the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11603 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 international fellowship of Christians and Jews. 2 Now, do I say she did something evil? No. She had a 3 huge job to go through. To go through all of Yousry's junk is 4 a huge job. She relied on Ms. Banout who wasn't an agent at 5 all to tell her and she did her best. She acted in good faith 6 at someone else's direction. That's okay with the government. 7 How was Yousry guided by the attorneys? That is, is 8 there evidence that when the attorneys said to do something it 9 was done and when they said not to that was done? Well there 10 is, of course. Let's start with them asking questions about 11 his dissertation 12 You recall he would ask the lawyers, May I ask this or 13 that about my dissertation? And they would say yes and 14 sometimes they would say no. So, on November 2nd of 2001 15 Mohammed Yousry was with Abdeen Jabara talking to the Sheikh, 16 MY-1244X-1 and he wants to ask a dissertation question. 17 He says: Okay, sir. The situation is very difficult. 18 Well, I have a question for you, sir, if Mr. Abdeen approves 19 it. What happened -- this hijacking of planes, killing 20 civilians -- is this Islamically permitted or not permitted? 21 Rahman: Planes, what planes? 22 Jabara: I don't think you should ask him that because 23 they...I really don't think you should ask him. 24 Yousry: Mr. Abdeen is telling you sir, no, no, do not 25 answer. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11604 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 And Rahman says: Okay. 2 Find the time when that question is asked again when 3 he goes to a different lawyer and says, hey, can I ask this 4 question? You won't, because he didn't. 5 When the lawyers tell him to take things out of 6 notebooks that is precisely what he does. Let's look at page 7 314 of his notebook. He is taking notes as he is talking to 8 the Sheikh, he apparently translates them later for Lynne 9 Stewart and it says: Do not read, as per Lynne Stewart. And 10 it's crossed out. And do you ever see that, delivered, read, 11 anything? No. 12 It happens again with Mr. Jabara. You will see at 13 page 436 of his notebook there is a note: Not to be sent as 14 per Abdeen. And see if you ever see that letter anywhere. 15 You also know that there are approvals on every single 16 article. Yousry writes what lawyers approves it. 17 So, when he is with Ramsey Clark you will see exhibits 18 541 -- I'm sorry, notebook pages 541 and 1200 that there are 19 articles. Those articles are approved by Ramsey Clark. 20 If you look at pages 833, 834 and 1187 of the notebook 21 you will see articles that are approved by Abdeen Jabara. 22 Interestingly the third article is in English of the New York 23 Times and it is one in which Abdeen Jabara makes a statement 24 about what the Sheikh has said in the Fatwah. He says: It's 25 not true any legal advisor transmitted such a message. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11605 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 Sort of what the Sheikh I guess asked people to do. 2 But I don't think Abdeen got in much trouble for that. 3 And when he is with Lynne you see the same thing. On 4 each and every article you see approvals by Lynne Stewart. So, 5 find the time when you don't have that. Find the time when he 6 avoids doing what the lawyers ask him to do. 7 And you know the government is always trying to ask 8 you to infer from this and infer from that what Yousry's state 9 of mind is, what his intent is but we know from explicit 10 conversations what he thinks about the SAMs and what his 11 understanding of the SAMs is. We see it expressed in a 12 conversation he had with Nasser Ahmed. 13 You remember the testimony about him, he had a 14 deportation proceeding, Ms. Stewart represented him, and 15 eventually they decided not to deport him. He was the original 16 paralegal for the Sheikh. 17 And on March 19th of 2000 he has a conversation, 18 MY-1705X, pages 3 and 4, and this is what is said. Yousry 19 says -- and you know when you're in the jury room you can look 20 at every page of these you want. I'm trying to tell you the 21 parts that I think are most important but look at it all to 22 make sure I'm not taking it out of context or somehow 23 misleading you about what they say. 24 Yousry says: Well, it's the regulation, the SAMs, the 25 SAMs. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11606 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 And Al-Humusani, who is Nasser Ahmed, says: This 2 regulation special for the Sheikh? 3 Yousry says: Yes. The SAMs, I mean Special 4 Administrative Measures, it is something...something for some 5 people including Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman. So, one of the 6 conditions is that the phone call cannot take place without the 7 presence of one of a specific group of lawyers... one of the 8 lawyers who signed to abide by these administrative measures. 9 You see? They can't leave the room during the call. Do you 10 follow me? 11 Then he says: None of them can allow me to say 12 anything to the Sheikh without discussing it with them first. 13 They have to know what I'm going to tell them. I mean, even 14 when I read the newspapers I have to get their approval, get it 15 from Abdeen, Larry or Ramsey. You see? 16 You see again how he tries to implement the SAMs in 17 the way he understands them in calls he has with Ed Noguchi, a 18 reporter for Japanese public television. These calls are 1702, 19 1703 and 1704, and in those calls Mr. Noguchi -- or they call 20 him Eddie sometimes -- calls him and says: I represent 21 Japanese public and TV want to have some questions with the 22 Sheikh and this is the conversation they have: Well, the 23 Sheikh will say what he thinks and even if the lawyers approve 24 it -- 25 And Noguchi says: Yeah. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11607 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 And he says: And they tell you -- 2 Noguchi: Yeah. Oh, so even the lawyers says maybe 3 yes but the Justice Department, may say no. 4 Yousry says: I know, I know, it's, it's -- you see 5 what happened is we cannot tell the Sheikh questions from the 6 media but we can tell him comments. 7 Noguchi says: Right. 8 Yousry: We can read him the newspaper. 9 Noguchi: Uh-huh. 10 Yousry: We can read him -- 11 Noguchi says. Uh-huh 12 Yousry: -- applicable analyses of things and stuff 13 but we wait for the lawyers to approve it because the lawyers 14 sign confidentiality agreement. 15 And Noguchi says: Oh yes? 16 Yousry says: So they can tell the Sheikh what anybody 17 else -- 18 Noguchi: Uh-huh. 19 Yousry: -- unless it is within the guidelines of the 20 Justice Department. So sometimes it happens that the lawyers 21 can give you answers. 22 Now, I'm going to stop in the middle this for a minute 23 because, again, Mr. Dember told you people are candid when they 24 don't know they're being recorded on the phone and Yousry is 25 trying to tell Noguchi -- a stranger to him -- he has no motive SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11608 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 to impress him, no motive not to impress him. He is trying to 2 tell him, so they can't tell anybody what the Sheikh says 3 unless they believe it is within the guidelines of the Justice 4 Department. 5 So sometimes it happens that the lawyers can give you 6 answers 7 Noguchi: Oh, really. 8 Yousry: Sometimes it happens. 9 And then there is a skip and then he says -- not a 10 skip, I'm skipping a part. And he said, Yousry: Yeah. Maybe 11 if you give him the questions tonight -- 12 Noguchi. Yeah. 13 Yousry: -- and we are having a call tomorrow 14 morning; if the lawyers approve the questions I can translate 15 the questions to the Sheikh. 16 Noguchi: Right. 17 Yousry: Then I translate the answers to the lawyers. 18 Noguchi: Uh-huh. 19 Yousry: And if the lawyers think that they're fine 20 and they're not going to cause any problems with the Justice 21 Department -- 22 Noguchi: Uh-huh. 23 Yousry: Then they tell you the answers. 24 So that seems to be his clear understanding. If the 25 lawyers say it is okay, it is okay. If they don't, don't. And SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11609 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 ask yourselves, what motive he has to lie there? 2 Also, just parenthetically, when I was talking about 3 Mr. Dember interpreting Mr. Yousry's "yeah," look at any of 4 these conversations and see how many times people say "yeah" 5 and "uh-huh" and see if they're always saying I agree a hundred 6 percent with everything you are saying, I know precisely what 7 you are saying and I am guilty of it. They don't. 8 Now later, actually months later Noguchi calls back 9 and they have a conversation about the questions that were 10 asked earlier and Yousry struggles to find them in his notebook 11 and he is trying to remember the date. And this is 1704 now 12 and he says: 13 Yousry: You know the... he really can't say more than 14 that. There are... there are a few things that the lawyers... 15 eh... crossed out. 16 Noguchi: Right 17 Yousry: You know he said it but the lawyers crossed 18 it out. 19 Noguchi: Right. 20 Yousry: So I can't really -- 21 Noguchi: Right. 22 Yousry: You know? 23 That's it. He doesn't say I want the Sheikh's word to 24 get out. Notwithstanding the fact that these crummy lawyers 25 cross stuff out, I'm going to tell you what he said. Don't SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11610 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 attribute it to me but I'm going to tell you what he said. He 2 tells him what is approved and he doesn't tell them what's not 3 approved. 4 Even when he is talking to people close to the case he 5 is equally scrupulous. On May 18th of 2000, it is GX 1088X, he 6 has a conversation with Nabil Elmasry. And Nabil Elmasry is a 7 paralegal for the Sheikh. He routinely sends letters to the 8 Sheikh and he was there even before Mohammed Yousry was there. 9 And he was talking to Yousry and he wants to send a letter to 10 the Sheikh and Yousry says: You know, first of all, I have to 11 read the letter to Lynne. 12 Elmasry says: I know. 13 Yousry: And Lynne has to approve it. 14 And Elmasry: Nothing is in the letter. It only 15 includes greetings. 16 Yousry: I understand, but I have to say that. 17 Elmasry: I know. 18 Yousry: By law, I have it say and do that anyway. 19 Send it. You have the number. 20 That's how Yousry understands the SAMs and always -- 21 always -- throughout this case, he acts in good faith. In 22 hundreds of phone calls, both personal and professional, the 23 government can't point to one time without a lawyer Yousry 24 passed or got information from the Sheikh. They have never 25 really shown you that Mohammed Yousry knew specifically what SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11611 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Stern 1 the SAMs required much less conspired with anyone to violate 2 them. 3 When Ramsey was there, when Lynne was there, when 4 Larry was there. He could have had any conversation he wanted. 5 They wouldn't have had the faintest idea if he was telling the 6 Sheikh about Taha or Hamza or the Cole or anything else. But 7 never does he do things like that. He reads the paper, he says 8 the things he is supposed to. That's it. 9 What you know is that Mohammed Yousry did his best to 10 follow the SAMs as he understood them. You know that the 11 government has failed to prove he knew of a conspiracy to kill 12 or kidnap people in a foreign country much less conspired to 13 help it. 14 A wonderful thing about America is that it welcomes 15 ambitious, talented people like Yousry to come here and make a 16 life; to learn and contribute and thrive but greater than that 17 is the power we have to tell the government when they're wrong, 18 the power and our obligation to protect citizens from the 19 government's excesses and mistakes. You jurors are those 20 citizens. It is up to you to tell the government in two simple 21 but powerful words that Mohammed Yousry shouldn't be here. 22 Tell them he is not guilty. 23 Thank you. 24 THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we will 25 take 15 minutes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11612 5145sat2 1 Please, please, remember my continuing instructions. 2 Please, don't talk about this case at all. Please always 3 remember to keep an open mind until I have finally instructed 4 you on the law and you have gone to the jury room to begin your 5 deliberations. 6 All rise, please. Please follow Mr. Fletcher to the 7 jury room. 8 (Jury not present) 9 THE COURT: See you shortly. 10 (Recess) 11 THE COURT: Please be seated, all. 12 The next summation will be by Mr. Paul for Mr. Sattar. 13 All right, let's call in the jury. 14 (Jury present) 15 THE COURT: All right. And of course, ladies and 16 gentlemen, you are to continue to apply my instructions with 17 respect to summations. 18 The next summation will be given by Mr. Paul on behalf 19 of Mr. Sattar. 20 Mr. Paul. 21 MR. PAUL: Thank you, your Honor. 22 May it please the Court, counsel, Mr. Sattar, ladies 23 and gentlemen of the jury. Good afternoon. 24 THE JURY: Good afternoon. 25 MR. PAUL: Let me begin by thanking you because, as we SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11613 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 all know, this has been a very long trial. It's amazing but we 2 have lived through all or part of four seasons this past year. 3 And I know I speak for not only myself but all the participants 4 in this trial when I say that your willingness to sacrifice 5 your time from your own lives in order to participate in this 6 trial is greatly appreciated. 7 Because we have worked together for so long I have 8 looked forward to finally having an opportunity to talk 9 directly with you. I have not had that opportunity since my 10 opening statement which, amazing as it may seem, is now some 11 six months ago. 12 I am sure you must realize that, just like you, when 13 you looked around the courtroom each day at all the parties and 14 tried to figure out what's going on, what are they thinking 15 about, what are they about, we would also try to size you up. 16 We attempted to guess what you are thinking. Unfortunately for 17 me I'm still unable to read minds. I did, however, notice some 18 very obvious things about you as a group. You have been most 19 attentive during this entire trial and that hasn't always been 20 easy. 21 The very nature of the evidence has not been the most 22 exciting. We only have to recall all those stretch breaks we 23 all lived through to be reminded of just that. Nevertheless, 24 even with that, you certainly appeared to be listening very 25 carefully whether you took notes or not. I only ask that you SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11614 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 continue to do so while I attempt to review the evidence with 2 you. And though this will obviously take a considerable amount 3 of time because there is a lot to go through, I truly hope that 4 it will not require too many stretch breaks. 5 Allow me to make some general observations before I 6 review and evaluate with you the facts of this case. 7 In attempting to figure out how to discuss and 8 summarize this trial and the evidence, I decided the best way 9 to do this was simply go to the beginning so I looked at the 10 government's opening statement as well as my own. And though I 11 realize opening statements, as I said, were long ago, there 12 were certain things said then that really require some 13 evaluating and repeating now. 14 In my opening statement I spoke at length about the 15 concerns and fears I had from the outset regarding the 16 challenges you would face in following your sworn oath as 17 jurors to be impartial and objective while you evaluated the 18 facts in this case and then applied them to the law as 19 instructed by Judge Koeltl which you will receive at the end of 20 this case. 21 Clearly my fears were justified because it became very 22 apparent early on in this trial that the government was going 23 to attempt to prove their case against Ahmed Sattar by stoking 24 the fires of fear we all live with today. 25 My concern was that your everyday experiences of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11615 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 simply reading and listening to the news, whether it was during 2 the national election debate or about the constant fighting 3 around the world, or the talk of hatred of one people toward 4 another, or the ever recurring violence that is labeled 5 terrorism, all of that kind of news, I fear, would make your 6 job that much more difficult. 7 What I wasn't certain of but unfortunately became 8 obvious during the presentation of the government's case, was 9 how the government would play upon those fears. Those very 10 same fears that overwhelm many of us during this so-called war 11 on terrorism and the effect they have on our emotions and 12 prejudices often resulting in an "us against them" mentality. 13 Though the Court has previously instructed you, and 14 will again, that Ahmed Abdel Sattar, as he sits there right now 15 is presumed innocent and, like any defendant, he is entitled to 16 that presumption as you enter the jury room to begin your 17 deliberations, as well as throughout, even though that is the 18 instruction and even though that is the law and even though 19 that is what we are guided by, I am not so naive to believe 20 that Mr. Sattar will be viewed in the same light as any other 21 defendant. 22 Sad as it may seem, I truly believe that my client, 23 Ahmed Sattar, begins at a distinct disadvantage. Even though 24 he is a United States citizen and considers himself an American 25 before anything else, Mr. Dember; simply his Arabic name, Ahmed SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11616 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Abdel Sattar, places him apart from others. Unfortunately, in 2 today's world, he is forced to confront that he is considered 3 to be one of the them in the war against us. 4 The world of Islam has taken on an entirely new 5 meaning since 9/11 but none of you can let any of that happen 6 during your deliberations. Any biases or prejudices you may 7 feel toward anyone must not interfere in your decision making. 8 My concern has never, not once, been from the evidence 9 presented against my client because I am confident that if you 10 truly evaluate all the evidence fairly and objectively, you 11 will come to the decision that the government has failed to 12 prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. 13 No, the reason I expressed my concerns to you in my 14 opening statement and do so again today is because the true 15 challenge you face is being faithful to the oath you took as 16 jurors. 17 Will your thoughts of the current war against 18 terrorism remain outside of the courtroom? That is a very 19 difficult challenge when the government has labeled this case 20 that you are listening to as one of terrorism. 21 Though you have each assured us you would be fair and 22 impartial, the random everyday violence and killing of innocent 23 people around the world may not allow you to shut that out of 24 your minds and remain objective. 25 Again, I remind you that thoughts of the war this SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11617 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 country has engaged is must remain outside the doors to this 2 courtroom and you should not allow them to creep into your 3 thinking as you evaluate the evidence fairly and objectively in 4 order to reach a determination as to the guilt or innocence of 5 Ahmed Sattar. You must do that in an unbiassed, impartial 6 objective way. You have assured us, all of us, you would and I 7 might add, you have sworn to do just that. 8 You may remember I had warned you that you were going 9 to hear terms and names that would perhaps make you flinch due 10 to those very fears I just mentioned. 11 What I wasn't aware of before we started this trial 12 was how the government would so blatantly attempt to tug and 13 play upon those fears. Why do I say this? Well, the perfect 14 example was when they tried time and time again to bring Osama 15 Bin Laden into this case. 16 You were instructed several times by the Court that 17 Osama Bin Laden is not part of this case. He is not a 18 co-conspirator, indicted or unindicted, with any of these 19 defendants. He is not involved in any way with any of the 20 crimes that these defendants have been charged with. But what 21 did the government do? They made every effort they could to 22 suggest otherwise. 23 Just this past September, a few months ago, during the 24 very week of 9/11, a date that is reminder to all of us of the 25 worst tragedy ever to strike this country and this very city SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11618 5145sat2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 only a few blocks from this very court building, what did they 2 do? They present Osama Bin Laden, the mastermind of this 3 unimaginable terrorist act. The number one enemy of the United 4 States appears before us in this very courtroom by way of a 5 videotape played by the government. 6 (Continued on next page) 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11619 514MSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 MR. PAUL: The timing of the presentation of that 2 piece of evidence may have merely been coincidental. But in 3 any event, think about the effect the showing of that video had 4 on you and ask yourself, what was your initial reaction? Did 5 you ever imagine that Osama Bin Laden, of all people, would 6 make an appearance at this trial, especially, especially after 7 you were all assured when being selected to serve on this jury, 8 that anything related to 9/11 or Osama Bin Laden would have 9 nothing to do with this case? And indeed, as the Court has 10 told you time and time again, neither 9/11 or Osama Bin Laden 11 has anything to do with this case. 12 In point of fact, if you step back and objectively 13 evaluate that video for what it is, it simply showed Osama Bin 14 Laden long before September 11, 2001, when most of us never 15 even heard of or knew anything about him, sitting alongside 16 someone who is involved in this case, Rifa'i Ahmad Taha Musa, 17 or Taha, as he has been called, as well as one of the Sheikh's 18 sons, all calling for the release of the Sheikh from the 19 American prison. It is nothing more than that and nothing less 20 than that. I simply use the video as a perfect example of how 21 your job of being objective has been challenged and tested 22 throughout this trial. 23 Why did the government show that video? Well, it was 24 their perfect opportunity to present Osama Bin Laden to you and 25 all he has come to represent. It was their not-so-subtle way, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11620 514MSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 which they have done repeatedly throughout this trial, to 2 attempt somehow to bring this case home to America. It was 3 their effort to convince you and scare you, I might add, into 4 thinking that this case is not only about Egypt and its 5 repressive government and it is not only about Sheikh Rahman's 6 prison conditions, but also a direct threat to the security of 7 the United States. 8 The evidence simply does not support such an inference 9 and you should not be fooled or tempted into considering it. 10 Did Taha or Mustafa Hamza or the Islamic Group in general, did 11 they issue threats against America because of the imprisonment 12 of Sheikh Rahman? Yes. Because as we have come to learn, this 13 was an organization that after 1997 was a shelf of its former 14 self and had no power or ability to do anything. These were 15 empty threats and merely propaganda. This was clearly Ahmed 16 Sattar's understanding of those statements and threats. 17 And most importantly, don't be lulled into hearing 18 someone else's statements and attribute them to Ahmed. The 19 fact that someone else made a statement or a threat of some 20 kind are not Ahmed Sattar's words or even his beliefs. In 21 fact, as you heard him tell you on the witness stand through 22 his testimony, he did not accept or adopt any of these 23 statements, whether they were issued by Sheikh Rahman, Taha, 24 Hamza, or the Islamic Group. Be very careful and focused when 25 determining who is saying what. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11621 514MSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Maybe Mr. Barkow for the government -- who you notice 2 is sitting here and probably at some point will be taking 3 careful notes during my summation because he is the one who 4 will have the opportunity to stand up here and give you his 5 rebuttal statement -- he will respond simply by saying, wait a 6 minute. We didn't bring Osama Bin Laden into this case. The 7 defendant, Mr. Sattar, did, because he associated with the 8 terrorist Taha, who in turn associated with another terrorist, 9 Osama Bin Laden, in calling for the release of the Sheikh, and 10 that's why he was presented to you through this video. 11 If that is their argument -- and it certainly seems 12 like it was as I listened to Mr. Dember's summation -- it is 13 exactly what I had warned you against previously in my opening 14 statement. Don't fall into the easy trap they are setting for 15 you, the trap being applying guilt by association. Be careful 16 of any argument which implies, as the government has attempted 17 to do throughout this trial, that you should draw certain 18 conclusions from who Ahmed Sattar associated with, whether that 19 means, as we know he did, associate with the Sheikh and his 20 family, Taha, Hamza, or other Islamic Group members such as 21 Salah Hashim and Atia. Or whether, as he testified, that he 22 had sent money to the commissary of those who were in prison 23 having been found guilty of very serious crimes. 24 It is not important to the government, I suppose, that 25 Ahmed sent money to those individuals, those who were in prison SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11622 514MSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 simply because he came to know many of them either through his 2 mosque or while working as a paralegal for the Sheikh during 3 their trial. That's not important. What's important to the 4 government is that he associated with those people. Don't let 5 the government even attempt to infer that all this must add up 6 to Ahmed Sattar being guilty simply because he associated with 7 individuals or a group who he knew were considered to be 8 terrorists. 9 According to the government, of course, you should 10 infer from all of this that Ahmed Sattar himself is a terrorist 11 or at least a terrorist sympathizer who advocates violence. 12 The easy track has been set. Be warned, be wary of it, and do 13 not fall for it because it is not a crime. I repeat, it is not 14 a crime to associate or know about or help others, even those 15 who you may feel are not deserving of any such help or 16 assistance. 17 What else did we come to learn early on in this trial? 18 We always knew from the charges brought from the government 19 that Sheikh Abdel Rahman was going to play a prominent role at 20 this trial. It became clear when his picture was displayed at 21 the very beginning of the government's opening statement. It 22 became clear exactly how in this case it was going to be more 23 about Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman than any defendant sitting at 24 this table. The government apparently thought it necessary 25 during this case to retry Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman. They SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11623 514MSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 played his sermons, read his wills, read his intercepted phone 2 calls, all in an attempt to present to you some of the angry 3 words spoken by him in the hope that your emotional reaction to 4 the Sheikh would simply spill over to your feelings about Ahmed 5 Sattar. 6 After all, they would argue, Ahmed Sattar was a 7 follower, a believer, and a supporter of the Sheikh. And 8 though he believed and still does to this day that the Sheikh 9 had been unjustly convicted, he was convicted all the same