11693 515JSAT1 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 1 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK 2 -------------------------------------x 2 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, 3 3 v. S1 02 Cr. 395 (JGK) 4 4 AHMED ABDEL SATTAR, a/k/a "Abu Omar," 5 a/k/a "Dr. Ahmed," LYNNE STEWART, 5 and MOHAMMED YOUSRY, 6 6 Defendants. 7 -------------------------------------x 7 8 January 5, 2005 8 9:30 a.m. 9 9 10 10 Before: 11 HON. JOHN G. KOELTL 11 12 District Judge 12 and a jury 13 13 APPEARANCES 14 14 DAVID N. KELLEY, 15 United States Attorney for the 15 Southern District of New York 16 ROBIN BAKER, 16 CHRISTOPHER MORVILLO, 17 ANTHONY BARKOW, 17 ANDREW DEMBER, 18 Assistant United States Attorneys 18 19 KENNETH A. PAUL, 19 BARRY M. FALLICK, 20 Attorneys for Defendant Sattar 20 21 MICHAEL TIGAR, 21 JILL R. SHELLOW-LAVINE, 22 Attorneys for Defendant Stewart 22 23 DAVID STERN, 23 DAVID A. RUHNKE, 24 Attorneys for Defendant Yousry 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116700 515JSAT1 1 (By Order of the Court, Pages 11694 through 11699 are 2 sealed and under separate cover) 3 (In open court; jury not present) 4 THE COURT: Please be seated, all. Let's bring in the 5 jury, please. 6 (Jury present) 7 THE COURT: Please be seated, all. Good morning, 8 ladies and gentlemen. 9 THE JURY: Good morning. 10 THE COURT: As always, it is good to see you all. We 11 are going to continue with summations. Please remember that 12 all of my instructions continue to apply to all of the 13 summations of counsel and my instructions on the law. 14 MR. PAUL: Yesterday, I discussed with you certain 15 areas of the evidence as presented in this case. We touched 16 upon the SAMS, we talked about the peace initiative, and now as 17 I explained to you when we broke up, the areas of evidence I 18 was going to discuss with you, we are now getting into the area 19 of the fatwah. Let's talk about this fatwah that was written 20 in Sheikh Rahman's name back in October of 2000 and which we 21 certainly heard so much about. 22 When I first spoke to you regarding this ghost-written 23 fatwah, which was written by Taha, with the assistance of Ahmed 24 Sattar, I told you then during my opening that the words were 25 hateful and angry. That hasn't changed. No matter how many SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116701 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 times you look at the statement, the words are filled with both 2 hatred and anger. That is not up for questioning or dispute. 3 I also told you, as with so much in this trial, that 4 the only way to fairly evaluate this statement was to put it 5 into some context of what was happening in the Middle East 6 during this particular period of time. 7 As Ahmed Sattar testified himself, at the end of 8 September 2000, Ariel Sharon, who at that time was not the 9 prime minister of Israel, but the hardline opposition leader, 10 announced that he was going to visit one of the holiest places 11 in all of the Muslim word, the Al-Agsa Mosque, and this was 12 considered by most muslims to be nothing more than a clear 13 provocation on the part of Mr. Sharon because not only did he 14 show up there and announce that he was going to be there, he 15 showed up with the arrival of a thousand or more Israeli 16 soldiers. 17 In the eyes of the Muslim people around the world, it 18 was made to look like an invasion. This was clearly done to 19 provoke and instigate a reaction on the part of the 20 Palestinians, and it achieved its goal. There were 21 demonstrations everywhere; the West Bank, Gaza, Egypt, even in 22 Saudi Arabia, where demonstrations are forbidden. This 23 so-called visit was broadcast all over the world, and to Ahmed 24 Sattar and many others just like him, this was considered to be 25 nothing less than a violation of their holy site. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116702 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 The Palestinians protested with demonstrations, and 2 the only means available to them which they had was by reacting 3 and throwing stones at the Israeli soldiers who had guns, and 4 the result of this uprising was terrible bloodshed, and we 5 heard about some of it. There were 73 Palestinians killed 6 within just two days. Ahmed Sattar, like so many others, sat 7 glued in front of his television watching in horror as the 8 terrible news reports came forward of so many being killed and 9 injured. 10 Some of you even may remember back then when the news 11 of these events were appearing daily on the television, reports 12 and news footage showing Palestinian kids throwing rocks and 13 Israeli soldiers responded. 14 The senseless violence of what was taking place in the 15 Middle East was displayed each day on the TV. As difficult as 16 it is for anyone to watch news such as this, try, just try to 17 imagine how it must have been for someone like Ahmed Sattar, 18 who, as you learned from just listening to him on the witness 19 stand, is someone who personally feels the pain and suffering 20 of those who are oppressed. 21 Try to place yourself back then when this was all 22 taking place, and though we cannot turn the clock back and 23 actually watch the news footage that was taking place and all 24 the reports that were going on, just imagine as if all that was 25 not horrible enough, there were these national news broadcasts SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116703 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 with the now famous footage of a very young boy being cradled 2 and covered by his father against the wall where the shooting 3 that was going on. 4 Some of you may even recall back to that footage. You 5 may very well remember seeing that yourself, and what it showed 6 was a father or a man with a young boy against a wall, hovering 7 over his son, and there was clearly shooting going on because 8 you can tell by the shots whizzing by and the father holding up 9 his hands to stop, please stop, whatever you do, and it 10 continued. 11 He was praying, obviously, for the shooting to stop 12 out of fear of being shot himself and certainly his kid who he 13 was hovering over and trying to protect. This was the footage 14 that was displayed. Unfortunately for the scene next in the 15 footage, first the child and then the father being shot and 16 killed. 17 We always hear how a picture is worth a thousand 18 words, and this sad report, with all its terrible pictures, was 19 broadcast time and time and time again throughout the world. 20 It had a dramatic impact on anyone who viewed it. 21 We know from Ahmed Sattar that he actually saw this 22 news live while it was unfolding, and it simply compounded the 23 pain he was already feeling for those who had been killed and 24 wounded. 25 He testified that he watched all the news, including SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116704 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 this footage, and how horrified he was by all of it. Seeing 2 this innocent young boy, about the same age as Ahmed's own son, 3 saddened him. The sadness grew into despair and hopelessness, 4 which then turned to anger. 5 For Ahmed Sattar, as he sat at home watching the news, 6 glued in front of the TV, his anger at the futility with which 7 the Palestinians attempted to fight against the Israeli Army 8 was fueled by the frustration he felt from the silence of not a 9 single so-called Arab leader coming forward and speaking out 10 against this outrage, not one. 11 We also know from a phone call that he had with his 12 friend Nasser Ahmed, on October 6, 2000, how he was reacting, 13 how he had reacted to all of the news being broadcast during 14 this entire period that he was watching in front of his TV. 15 MR. MORVILLO: I am referring now to the Defense 16 Exhibit AS 5 T. Again this is a conversation telephone call 17 between Ahmed Sattar and Nasser Ahmed. It says Al Moussary, I 18 referred to him as Nasser Ahmed, which is the name he goes by, 19 Nasser Ahmed, yes, the people were fuming with anger. Ah-huh, 20 ah-huh, people are extremely furious and angry. I mean, of 21 course, of course, the entire Arab world is furious. I have 22 been, I've been watching the news coming from everywhere, from 23 Egypt, from Jordan and from the Emirates. There are 24 demonstrations in Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia. These Saudis, I 25 mean Nasser speaks, Sattar responds. No no, I've been, the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116705 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Saudi authorities are strict. In other words, they don't 2 allow -- he continues. Yes, they don't allow something like 3 that to take place. However, they cannot control the 4 situation. Nasser Ahmed says looking at the child while he is 5 dying is something impossible, I mean -- Sattar, but it is not 6 the child alone. Nasser Ahmed. This is going on, Sattar. Abu 7 Ahmed, but, but, but they saw him dying on television, they saw 8 him dying. You haven't seen it? You don't know about it? Was 9 it shown on American television? I am watching Al-Jazeera. 10 Nasser: No, they didn't show it. Sattar: They put pictures, 11 they put pictures of the boy when he was alive, alive and his 12 father was telling them, was telling them, "enough, enough," 13 No, no I am watching the news. Back to Nasser. He 14 was telling them, "enough, enough. We are --" 15 He was waving his hand like that. After that he told 16 him that the boy had died, the boy had died. I mean, the boy 17 was, the boy was talking to his father. He was crying. Later 18 a stream, a stream of bullets shot with a rifle, and you know 19 what? The father was silent and the boy was silent. Nasser: 20 Bad news. It was on Al-Jazeera, right? Sattar? What, Sattar. 21 Yes, on Al-Azhar. 22 Continuing on, Sattar says yes, now they have Hosni 23 Mubarak. They're showing the demonstrations that took place at 24 Alasar. Too many demonstrations walked out from Alasar. 25 However, they only allowed them. They only allowed them to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116706 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 report certain things. They showed Hosni Mubarak as he was 2 visiting, as he was visiting wounded Palestinians. Nasser: 3 Where did that take place? Sattar: They moved him, they moved 4 him to Egypt, to Egyptian hospitals. The hospitals won't have 5 enough room for thousands of wounded people. Nasser: Bad 6 news. Sattar: Thousands until now, today, 11 people were 7 killed. 8 It was after seeing the visit of Ariel Sharon to the 9 mosque and the aftermath of the violence that occurred that 10 Ahmed Sattar has a telephone conversation with Taha, who had 11 called to discuss the situation in the Middle East. It was 12 decided at that time that Taha would write something, a 13 statement in the name of Sheikh Rahman. 14 Within a very short time Taha wrote and forwarded to 15 Ahmed a fatwah, a religious edict, which called for the killing 16 of Jews. Though Ahmed did not have any role in actually 17 writing this fatwah, he did choose to change a few words after 18 he had received it from Taha. He changed the title to read 19 from, "to kill the Jews," to, "to kill the Israelis," which I 20 suppose somehow in his mind at that time was in some way making 21 this statement directed more at what was happening in Israel 22 and toward those who are killing Palestinians. 23 He also removed a reference to Americans or the United 24 States which was in the body of the statement. Ahmed testified 25 that he certainly is not without fault here since he admits to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116707 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 encouraging Taha to write the edict in the first place. 2 Once written, Ahmed send it on to Al-Jazeera in 3 London, who put it on his web site. It was disseminated here 4 in New York in a public protest. Ahmed testified how upset and 5 angry he was during this entire period of time, and that is 6 evident from Government Exhibit 1185 S. This was a 7 conversation, as you may recall, between Ahmed Sattar and his 8 friend Musa. I am sure you remember it was during this 9 conversation that Ahmed cursed when somebody had questioned 10 whether Sheikh Rahman really issued such a fatwah. Did this 11 really happen? Is this really from him? 12 We sat here and listened to over 220 intercepts of 13 Ahmed Sattar, and I guarantee you you can listen to the balance 14 of the 85,000 intercepts, though I would never do that to you, 15 ever. We would not ever hear so much as a curse word from 16 Ahmed Sattar, not once. This only shows and indicates the 17 emotional state that Ahmed Sattar was in during this period of 18 time. 19 In that conversation, he also quoted from the Koran, 20 and as you saw the verse comes, this particular verse comes 21 from a series of verses that tell Muslims how to react to 22 someone who transgresses against them. Ahmed Sattar was using 23 this Koranic verse in this conversation to put the fatwah into 24 context. Something the government never chooses or wants to 25 do. He told you how his Muslim faith as expressed in how this SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116708 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 verses teaches one not to create a fight or be the aggressor, 2 but only to fight back against the aggressor and those who 3 choose, they choose to persecute. 4 He told you that he never advocated any violence 5 unless in self-defense. Just like everything else in this 6 case, you cannot isolate, you cannot pick apart, you cannot 7 take a statement or a conversation or even a verse from the 8 Koran and take it out of context, you just can't do that. 9 This verse, just like the fatwah itself, has to be put 10 into the context of both what was happening in the Middle East 11 during that particular time in late September and early October 12 of 2000 and the an Arab-Israeli conflict that continues to go 13 on to this very day. 14 Several times, I counted at least two times, perhaps 15 there were more, Mr. Dember attempted to argue in his summation 16 that the fatwah, "standing alone is a solicitation of 17 violence." That is Mr. Dember. He was deliberately, ladies 18 and gentlemen, taking the statement out of context from which 19 it took place. Even the indictment itself, the indictment 20 itself reads that this fatwah was written, "in response to 21 recent events in the Middle East." 22 Mr. Dember chose to ignore that and to minimize, as 23 the government chose to do throughout the context in which the 24 statement was made, and he chose to ignore the most important 25 issue of which you will have to decide, which is the intent SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116709 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 with which it was made at the time, the intent of Mr. Ahmed 2 Sattar. 3 As Ahmed himself told you and as unfortunate as it may 4 seem, this is how the Arabs and the Israelis communicate. An 5 Israeli will stand up and shout kill the Arab, kill the Muslim, 6 or an Arab will stand up and shout kill the Jews. This is the 7 everyday rhetoric that is used by all who have lived through 8 this conflict for decades, people killing and calling for the 9 killing of others. That is what is going on. 10 I suggest to you that this kind of ugly, hateful and 11 angry words are still just words, and they're a by-product of 12 the anger and war that rages on in that part of the world and 13 has for decades. 14 By the way, was there ever once any reaction to this 15 fatwah in the Middle East or elsewhere? No. Did the Islamic 16 Group or anyone else ever engage in any violence against 17 Israelis or Jews in response to this fatwah? No. 18 Was it Ahmed Sattar's attempt to have the fatwah 19 increase the risk of violence towards Jews or Israelis? No. 20 What was Ahmed Sattar's true intent and reason for 21 issue the fatwah in the name of Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman? 22 There were really two reasons: The first, as he said, was to 23 keep the Sheikh's name out there in the public. It was a way 24 to let the Muslim world know that Sheikh Rahman is still alive. 25 He may be isolated, he may be removed, but he's alive and not SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116710 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 completely isolated from the world events that were taking 2 place. 3 The second reason was that Ahmed himself felt that 4 somebody needed to speak out against what was happening to the 5 Palestinians during this time. None of the official Arab 6 leaders in the area were saying anything. Ahmed Sattar is a 7 firm believer that when atrocities are committed against those 8 who are oppressed, the great leaders should stand strong and 9 speak out against the oppress source. This was clearly not 10 happening. 11 In fact, there had been complete silence from the Arab 12 leaders. It was Ahmed's belief and his intent that this edict 13 from Sheikh Rahman was to provide a voice on behalf of those 14 who have no voice of their own. 15 What else was Ahmed's true intent when he helped in 16 the writing of this fatwah? Let me refer to you his own words 17 to explain that question. He told you this in his testimony. 18 I am referring to Page 10,212 of the trial transcript, 19 beginning at line 5, where he is being questioned about the 20 fatwah, and I quote: 21 "Q What was your intent? 22 "A My intent? My intent was just to scream loud, to cry. 23 This was my intent. In my opinion, the Palestinians were the 24 victims. The Palestinians, they had been slaughtered, they had 25 been killed. When the victims scream and say I am going to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116711 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 kill you, he is still the victim. He is not going to do 2 anything. He is just crying and screaming. When I saw that 3 boy being shot, when I saw 72 Palestinians being killed in two 4 days, hundreds being wounded, when I had seen that, I screamed, 5 I cried and I said I will kill you. I did not mean to kill 6 anybody. I didn't want to kill anybody. I was just crying. 7 That's what I was doing." 8 And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the true intent or 9 state of mind of Ahmed Sattar when he assisted in the writing 10 and his dissemination of the fatwah. It was never, ever his 11 intent to solicit violence, nor was it ever his intent to 12 conspire to kill or Kidnap others. 13 He told you on reflection that looking at the words 14 Taha used and admittedly adopted by him with a few changes he 15 made, he should not have allowed his emotions and frustrations 16 of the moment to take over, for that is not his usual nature, 17 and you certainly saw him on the witness stand. You gather 18 what your opinion was with regard to his demeanor. Indeed, 19 after he cried out from the statement, it was all over. Once 20 his anger and cry was released, it was over and forgotten. 21 The fatwah, the fatwah was never mentioned or 22 discussed again by Ahmed with anyone after a conversation he 23 had with Taha on October 16th, 2000, only 10 days went by since 24 the file had been used. It was never discussed against because 25 the moment of anger and frustration had passed. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116712 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Looking back at that time and how even to this day 2 these kind of hateful statements are common and unfortunately 3 issued on a regular basis by Jews and Arabs alike, with nothing 4 ever happening, there would be nowhere that Ahmed Sattar would 5 or could ever consciously believe that this fatwah would be 6 received by anyone as soliciting violence or as part of a 7 conspiracy to kill or Kidnap anyone in a foreign country. 8 As he testified, it was never his intent for anything 9 to happen from the issuance of this statement except that by 10 screaming out, it would urge people to question what was going 11 on as well as to alert others that at least one Arab leader, 12 Sheikh Rahman, was aware of what was happening and was speaking 13 out against it. 14 That, ladies and gentlemen, is putting it in context 15 of what was happening and why this fatwah was issued. That is 16 exactly what the evidence shows. It was passed, it was over, 17 it was done. It had been released. He had released his anger 18 and frustration, and that is exactly what the evidence 19 supports. It was never addressed again. 20 Let me now talk about another area of evidence which 21 you heard so much about in Mr. Dember's summation. It is the 22 area of Atia. Let me first remind you that all of the 23 conversations with Atia took place over almost an entire year. 24 We're not talking about lots of conversations going back 25 intensely between the parties between a matter of a few months. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116713 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 In fact, it begins in January of 2000, and Atia, as we know, 2 gets killed in October 2000. 3 So we're talking about a period of approximately 10 4 months going by and, in fact, as you heard, months actually 5 passed before there were any conversations or intercepts 6 between Mr. Sattar and anybody connected or having to do with 7 Atia. 8 Who is Atia, and what was all of this about with 9 regard to Atia and the evidence concerning him? Really, what 10 it all boils down to is that Atia was a fugitive and he wanted 11 help and he wanted to get out of Egypt. That is what all of 12 this is about. That is exactly what was going on. 13 And Ahmed Sattar attempted to help him get out of 14 Egypt. He was placed in that position. He didn't seek it. 15 That is what he did, and that is what the evidence shows. 16 At first it all seems very confusing. In fact, as I 17 recall, Mr. Morvillo spent almost an entire day during his 18 cross-examination of Ahmed Sattar to show that people were 19 using different names, telephone numbers and locations to 20 communicate with each other. Of course they were. These were 21 people on the run. These were people afraid of being caught. 22 There is no issue there. Of course they were giving 23 names that weren't theirs and phone numbers to be contacted. 24 There is no issue that Atia was not a fugitive trying to get 25 out. When you get right down to all of this, these people who SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116714 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 were using these codes and clearly expressing their concern 2 that their lines might be tapped were scared, scared they could 3 be located, scared they would be found, scared that they would 4 be killed. Why was all of this happening? 5 Because Atia was an individual who we came to learn 6 was a fugitive from the Egyptian regime. He was on the run. 7 He needed help to get out. He was heading south along the Nile 8 and toward the Sudan in order to make his escape from what 9 would otherwise be certain death at the hands of the Egyptian 10 authorities. 11 He was running and hiding and being helped by others 12 along his route to freedom. In his efforts to escape Egypt and 13 the obvious difficulty in communicating with others, he and his 14 colleagues attempted to reach out to those outside Egypt for 15 assistance because they were desperate for money, guidance and 16 help. 17 As I said, these calls began in January of 2000, any 18 call to Mr. Sattar. In January of 2000 when Ahmed Sattar 19 received that first phone call from someone by the name of 20 Hani, that is when this all begins. Hani told Ahmed that Salah 21 Hashim, who, as we came to learn, was a member, Islamic Group 22 leader in Egypt and one of the architects of the peace 23 initiative, had given Ahmed's telephone number to him, to Hani, 24 to help make contacts. Hani went on to explain he was reaching 25 out on behalf of another who he said at the time was his father SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116715 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 and who needed to speak to Mustafa Hamsa. 2 Ahmed did not have a direct way to contact Hamsa. 3 Hamsa, he was assured that Hani he would send a message to 4 Hamza, which he did. When he called back, he had no idea who 5 Hani was or the man Hani was calling on behalf of was of. This 6 was conveyed to Hani a few weeks later. These communications 7 continued with Hani being more and more frustrated with Hamsa's 8 refusal to speak with Hani. Hani asked if Ahmed would help in 9 contacting Taha, that which Hamza was not willing to do. What 10 became clear to Ahmed Sattar from these first calls right from 11 the beginning, Hani was sounding more and more desperate and in 12 need of help. 13 Several months went by, and in April of 2000, Hani 14 called again. This time he was begging to speak to Hamza, and 15 when told of this, Hamza finally agreed. Ahmed connected Hamza 16 for Hani, for no other reason than he understood Hani's dire 17 situation. It is clear during this conversation that Hamza had 18 absolutely no idea who Hani was, nor who Hani was calling on 19 behalf of. Namely, this individual called Atia, or as we 20 learned his full name, Alaa , Abdul Raziq Atia. 21 This conversation was also referred to in Mr. Dember's 22 summation but he didn't read this part of that conversation. I 23 am referring now to Government Exhibit 1068, which is a 24 conversation on April 1, 2000, between Hamza and Hani, and this 25 shows you how many months had passed between the time Hani SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116716 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 reached out to Sattar for help that started in January and now 2 this is the first time Hamza knows it is desperate, Ahmed is 3 telling him that, he finally gets a chance to speak to Hani. 4 Hamza: May I talk to brother Alaa, please? 5 Unidentified male: Alaa who? Hamza: Alaa Abdul Ra, meaning? 6 Alaa Abdul Raziq Atia. 7 Okay. Here he is, Mr. Hani. Hani: Hello. Hamza: 8 Hello. Peace be upon you. Hani: Are you okay? Who am I 9 talking to? 10 Hamza: May God bless you. Hani: Who am I talking 11 to? Hamza: The people you have asked to talk to, ha? Hani? 12 Oh, how are you? How are you doing? Hamza: May God bless you 13 and keep you. How is everything? How are things? Hani: Ah, 14 anyway, let me introduce myself to you. Hamza: Go ahead. 15 Hani: I am Hani. Ah, Hani. I was sent to you by the person 16 you called the other day, Mr. Alaa Hamza. 17 Oh, oh oh, yes, yes. Hani: Who he sent me to you and 18 told me to return your call. Anyway I am Hani and I am the one 19 who contacted Mr. Ahmed, meaning Sattar, and I used the name 20 Forza. Hamza: Yes, yes. Hani: I am the one who got the 21 phone number from the engineer, the telephone from Sattar. 22 Hamsa. Good, Good. Hani: I was referring to him by 23 Mr. Alaa, okay so far? 24 Hamza: Good, good, good. It is going to be more 25 comfortable if you coordinate things with the engineer, ha? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116717 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Things will go much smoother, ha, because to organize things 2 with me will be a little difficult, ha? 3 Keep in mind, Hamza is outside of Egypt. The engineer 4 is inside Egypt, clearly someone who can help him cooperate 5 better than Hamsa. Hani: Why? It is going to be also 6 difficult with the engineer. Hamza: Things will be a little 7 complicated with us, ha? Let us know what he is requesting and 8 how we can help out. Discuss things and God willing will reach 9 a solution at the end. Hani: Mr. Alaa was trying for a long 10 time to contact Abu Nasser. Hani: Or Alaa -- and Mr. Alaa -- 11 yes. Hani: I will talk openly with you now, so later we'll be 12 on sure ground. Hani: Yes. We have been in the contact with 13 the engineer for a long time now, 15 months ago. Hamza: Yes. 14 Hani: And he is good to deal with. I am the one who took 15 Ahmed's phone number, meaning Sattar, from him. 16 Hamza: Yes. But this is not going to work. We 17 prefer to contact you directly. Hamza: Well, it will end up 18 okay, see what, ah, okay, get to the point. No problem. Hani: 19 Now, Mr. Alaa is very tight and needs money. As we know, he is 20 on the run. 21 Hamza: Yes. Hani: He is really very, very tight on 22 money. He went to many people to, you know, ah -- Hamza: We 23 can send to the engineer and he forwards it to you, he will 24 forward to you what you want. You know what I am saying? And 25 then Hamza continues: Yes, but we are going to try as much as SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116718 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 we can do. Do you know anyone in Saudi Arabia? Are you in 2 touch with someone there or anywhere abroad? Hani, 3 simultaneously, no we have no contact with anyone at all. 4 Hamza: Ha? Hani: Mr. Alaa did not tell me about anything of 5 that sort. Hamza: Ha? Hani: We need to be in touch now. 6 The most important thing now is the money. Besides, we need to 7 have some interaction. 8 Hamza: We need to -- we should make the engineer the 9 point of contact but in an indirect way, ha? Hani: Yes, I 10 know. Hamza: We will try to tell indirectly to send you 11 something, send you money and so on such he can. Ha? Hamza 12 continues: Do you think Alaa himself can come here or is it 13 difficult for him to do so? 14 Hani: How can he? And then he laughs because the 15 idea is pretty ridiculous, since he is on the run. How can he? 16 Hamza: Ha? It is extremely difficult, of course. Hamza: 17 Excuse me? Hani: It is very difficult, of course. It 18 continues. 19 Hani: But do you know who this man is? Do you know 20 who Alaa is? Hamza: No, we do not. No, we do not know. We 21 can understand in the future by reading between the lines. 22 This is some powerful group, this Islamic Group, when 23 one of the so-called leader, Hamza, Mustafa Hamza, doesn't even 24 know who he is talking with or about. He doesn't know who Alaa 25 Abdul Raziq Atia is. Remember, it is Atia who is supposed to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116719 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 be the head, the head of the military wing of the Islamic 2 Group, and Hamza doesn't even know who this person is. 3 It is obvious from these calls that the Islamic Group 4 was not a group with any organization or structure and 5 certainly not a group with any power to do anything. As Ahmed 6 himself testified, this was also apparent to him. It was 7 during these telephone calls that it became clear to Ahmed that 8 the person Hani was calling on behalf of was a fugitive. 9 Though Mr. Dember told you that there was nothing in 10 any of these calls, even all the way through October, he said, 11 to indicate that Atia was a fugitive and anxious to get out of 12 Egypt. That is hardly the case. I invite you, I implore you, 13 review any number of these conversations and you will see that 14 it was very clear, very early on that these people were 15 desperate for money, in hiding and anxious to get out. 16 Neither Hamza or Ahmed had any idea who the person on 17 the run was. Ahmed understood anyone in Egypt hiding and 18 trying to get out is desperate and looking only to survive. 19 Eventually, as Ahmed testified, he doesn't attempt to find out 20 on his own who this person Atia is. He reads about him and 21 learns he was a militant from the Islamic Group, who was 22 involved in acts of violence against the Egyptian government. 23 Ahmed testified he never fully understood all the acts 24 that Atia may have been committed in the past. It wasn't until 25 this trial, he said, he learned from listening to one of the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116720 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 conversations, specifically the conversation in Government 2 Exhibit 1075 X, where Hamza is talking with Atia on April 24, 3 2000. In this call, Atia says on Page 23 of the transcript 4 that, "we did the big matter on our own. We had no link to 5 anybody and nobody told us anything." 6 Do you remember during Mr. Dember's summation he 7 basically spent a great deal of time playing detective because 8 he wanted to prove to you that when Mr. Sattar testified, that 9 he did put that together, he didn't hear or he didn't at that 10 time recall or think what the big matter could be until he 11 listened to it now. 12 Mr. Dember tried to show you how he lied and he 13 basically told you he looked forward to conversations that took 14 place after this. Mr. Sattar is talking to others and he is 15 referring to this conversation and he refers to parts of this 16 conversation like a cell phone reference that took place before 17 this part and some other reference that took place after this 18 part, and this was all to assure you that Mr. Sattar was lying 19 when he told you on the witness stand that he hadn't put this 20 big matter together in his mind or doesn't recall hearing it. 21 Let me just respond to this argument simply by saying 22 that if Ahmed Sattar truly wanted to lie about hearing this 23 comment or putting it together at the time as to what it meant, 24 all he had to say was he heard it, but he had no idea what the 25 big matter was referring to. It could have been a reference to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 116721 515JSAT1 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 anything. He didn't say that because that wouldn't have been 2 the truth. He knew when he heard it here or listened to it 3 during preparation of this case that's what it must have meant. 4 That is what he put together. 5 Additionally, and perhaps even more telling, and I 6 emphasized this to you, when Ahmed later speaks with Taha and 7 tells him about what he has heard by listening to this 8 conversation between Atia and Hamza, don't you think if Ahmed 9 Sattar had actually heard this and realized that this fugitive 10 Atia was somehow involved in Luxor, the big matter, he would 11 have mentioned that to Taha. 12 (Continued on next page) 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11722 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 MR. PAUL: Don't you think he might have just said, by 2 the way, you know this guy, who was a fugitive, who is on the 3 run, whose people are calling me and trying to help me get out, 4 this guy was involved in Luxor. It is amazing. He doesn't say 5 that anywhere. There is no conversation referring back to 6 that. Isn't that something that Ahmed Sattar might just 7 remember to tell Taha, of all people, because remember the 8 government's theory is, he is working with Taha, trying to 9 conjure up some way for Atia to commit some terrorist act. He 10 might have just remembered to say that in his conversation with 11 Taha. It might just dawn on him. 12 Mr. Dember's argument just doesn't hold the evidence. 13 Ahmed never has any such conversation with anyone about Atia 14 and his connection to Luxor because he never heard it or put 15 that together until this trial. And even more importantly, 16 even more importantly than all of that, even if Ahmed Sattar 17 had heard and did realize that Atia was talking about being 18 involved in Luxor, you know what? It wouldn't matter. Because 19 as Ahmed himself told you and, more importantly, his Honor will 20 instruct you, knowledge alone is not a crime. 21 In that April 24, 2000 conversation that I was 22 referring to, Ahmed does learn that Hamza sent money to Atia. 23 He also heard Hamza explain to Atia about the peace initiative 24 and the agreed-upon policy set by the shura counsel of the 25 Islamic Group. He tells Hamza that he does not really have a SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11723 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 position. Atia tells Hamza that he does not really have a 2 position on the issue of the peace initiative. But he explains 3 that he is committed to follow and support whatever the Islamic 4 Group's policy is and, therefore, he supports the initiative. 5 You know what, ladies and gentlemen? Atia was anxious to get 6 out. He would have said anything to those who he thought might 7 help him to get out. 8 As I mentioned a month later, when Ahmed speaks to 9 Taha, he tells him about the conversation between Hamza and 10 Atia, but there is no mention of Atia's involvement in Luxor, 11 as I said. Remember Hani, who had originally wanted to only 12 speak with Hamza, had later asked to make contact with Taha 13 when Hamza was so slow in his willingness to respond and talk 14 with Hani. Taha was now finally responding to the e-mail that 15 Ahmed had sent him months earlier, many months earlier. Once 16 Taha heard about the conversations between Hamza and Atia, he 17 told Hamza that he wanted Atia's support on the ongoing 18 struggle with the different factions of the Islamic Group of 19 the peace initiative we have heard so much about. 20 Several more months passed. Again, months would go 21 by. On September 4, 2000, a connection was finally made 22 between Taha and Hani. In this conversation, which is 23 Government Exhibit 1167 in evidence, Taha, like Hamza before, 24 explains to Hani about the existing conflict between the two 25 factions. He also tells Hani in this conversation that the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11724 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 work of the Islamic Group should continue if possible. As 2 Ahmed testified, he understood that the Islamic Group was not 3 just a militant organization. It was also a social group which 4 had organized clinics, schools, and had done charity work. 5 Don't lose sight of that. During this entire period of time 6 Ahmed understood Taha to be referring to those who had been 7 calling to stop everything, even preaching. All the clinics 8 and schools had already been closed. 9 And what Ahmed understood from what Taha was telling 10 Hani was that even though there was some kind of agreement with 11 the Egyptian government through this peace initiative, that 12 does not mean that the group should stop everything they were 13 doing in the past as if they no longer existed at all. Ahmed's 14 understanding as to why Taha was talking about the political 15 differences and positions within the Islamic Group to Hani was 16 because of the group's ongoing political struggle and 17 maneuvering. He understood that Taha was always looking for 18 support of his position, which was to press and escalate the 19 rhetoric against the Egyptian government. It didn't matter 20 whether he was trying, as we know he continuously did, to 21 gather moral support for his position through Sheikh Rahman, 22 or, as in this situation, support from other Islamic Group 23 members, such as Hani and Atia. 24 It is also during this conversation that Hani tells 25 Taha that Atia is very anxious to get out of Egypt, and Hani SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11725 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 had sent money and was arranging for Atia to escape into the 2 Sudan. It was Hani's belief that no matter what, those who 3 leave have difficulties and problems once on the outside and in 4 a foreign land. He explains how those who leave in that 5 conversation turn 180 degrees from the way they were while 6 inside Egypt, in terms of adhering to the teachings of their 7 faith. Though he does explain how Atia has a choice and if he 8 wants to leave Egypt, he should, Taha was not recommending it. 9 He was speaking from his own experience of being on the outside 10 and how different and difficult it is. 11 Taha also talks about leading Atia after he gets out 12 of Egypt or shortly before he escapes, neither of which, I 13 should remind you, ever happens. 14 Ahmed Sattar explained at the end of that conversation 15 that he was glad Taha had given his viewpoint to Hani. He felt 16 that it was good for Hani to hear. As he told you several 17 times during his testimony, Ahmed is one who firmly believes 18 that all viewpoints should always be expressed. Doesn't matter 19 whether he personally agrees with any particular viewpoint or 20 not, for that is not what is important to him, and the evidence 21 showed that throughout this case. Didn't matter. Didn't 22 matter to him about the peace initiative in the letters that 23 were going to the Sheikh. That was not important to Sattar. 24 As Ahmed Sattar testified himself -- I'm referring now to the 25 trial transcript and reading at page 10265, beginning at line SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11726 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 16: 2 "Q Mr. Sattar, do you recall testifying at the end of the day 3 yesterday that you were happy that Taha was able to explain his 4 points of view to Hani? 5 "A Yes." 6 Continuing on line 3, 10266: 7 "Q Mr. Sattar, could you just limit your answer to why you 8 cared whether Taha expressed his point of view without 9 discussing the context of the Egyptian government and what was 10 happening in the Egyptian government? 11 "A Okay. I just want him to express his point of view, 12 whether I agree with it or I disagree with it. I believe it is 13 a fundamental right for every human being to be able to express 14 his view. I think I'm so -- I am a product of two cultures, an 15 Islamic culture and an American culture. I've been living here 16 for 23 years. I adore freedom of expression and I will go at 17 great length to guarantee that right to everyone that I know. 18 The right of expression is one Ahmed Sattar has lived 19 and believed in his entire life. He practices and preaches 20 this absolute right, whether as a political activist starting 21 in his community, as a member of the board of directors for his 22 mosque, or simply when expressing his own political beliefs 23 regarding Egypt and the Middle East. During these calls in 24 this time period it was always Ahmed's understanding that this 25 man Atia was a fugitive and very anxious to flee Egypt and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11727 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Ahmed simply was placed in the middle of trying to help him get 2 out. 3 On October 11, 2000, Ahmed Sattar speaks to Taha in a 4 conversation that was introduced into evidence as Government 5 Exhibit 1194X. This is a conversation, as you may recall, 6 where Defense Exhibit AS-18-T was also introduced into evidence 7 and which I submit is a more accurate transcript of this 8 particular conversation than Government Exhibit 1194X. 9 Why do I say this? First of all, just by reading, 10 examining and comparing the two exhibits, put them side by 11 side, please. One is able to see the detail and care that went 12 into the 25-page transcript of AS-18-T compared with what 13 appears to be more like paraphrasing in the less-detailed 14 20-page transcript of Government Exhibit 1194X. You also had 15 the opportunity to hear the testimony of the translator who 16 prepared Exhibit AS-18-T, Mr. Mohammed Muslih. You learned 17 about his impressive educational and professional background 18 and experience. 19 He testified that he listened to this conversation 20 many times during his preparation of this transcript. You only 21 have to look at and read Exhibit AS-18-T to know the care 22 Mr. Muslih took in getting every single spoken word down on 23 paper to make sure it was accurate and correct. 24 He also told you that it was clear to him, after 25 listening to the entire conversation, that Ahmed Sattar was SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11728 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 concerned that this "other brother" in this case, Atia, was 2 trying to talk. He had a "predisposition" to talk. Atia 3 wanted to talk about subjects concerning two lawyers, as well 4 as other subjects which Ahmed explained he had no interest or 5 desire to listen to, and he cut him off. That's what 6 Mr. Muslih told you. 7 And I refer now to Exhibit AS-18-T. 8 Sattar: The other brother is the one who said all 9 this talk. However, while talking to the other brother, I 10 sensed that he was -- I mean -- I mean. And he continued 11 anxious about things. I mean, judging. Continuing. I mean, 12 judging from the way he spoke, that he had, I mean -- he had 13 the predisposition and the readiness to the -- to the point 14 where I 15 Sattar: I mean I felt that he was going to open up, 16 meaning to talk, so I cut him off. Continuing. I probably cut 17 him off two or three times, asserting to him in the process. I 18 mean, I told him, the line is not secure. The line is not 19 safe. So I mean -- continuing. Sattar continues: There is 20 another line and I told him and I explained to him. I mean I 21 told him. I'm someone who is not -- continuing, who has 22 nothing to do with the details. I mean, I am someone -- I am, 23 I mean, I am, I am like, like Hisham, like the others, I mean, 24 a go-between, I mean. 25 This conversation took place after Ahmed had spoken SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11729 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 with Atia and he is now explaining to Taha about that 2 conversation. He tells Taha that Atia has been waiting for two 3 days and is "out of the water," which is a reference to him 4 being out of his hiding place and exposed. He goes on to tell 5 Taha that Atia is stranded in that city, and he needs help and 6 all Atia wanted to do was to keep talking, because he was 7 anxious about things and had the predisposition and the 8 readiness to the point where Ahmed felt that he was going to 9 open up, so he cut him off. 10 Why is this conversation important? Because it is a 11 perfect example of the government's effort to isolate a line or 12 two from a conversation and ask you to draw a conclusion from 13 this. In this case, it is even more disturbing because not 14 only did they get it wrong as to what was actually being said 15 and being referred to, but they compounded their error by 16 actually placing this particular conversation in the indictment 17 as an overt act in furtherance of Count 2, the conspiracy to 18 kill or kidnap persons in a foreign country. 19 And I refer in the indictment to paragraph 33(e) which 20 reads as follows: On or about October 11, 2000, during a 21 telephone conversation Sattar told Taha that he had spoken with 22 Atia and believed that Atia was eager, ready, and able "to do 23 things," and that he had to warn Atia repeatedly during the 24 telephone call that his telephone was "not safe." This is the 25 kind of misleading inferences and inaccurate charges Ahmed SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11730 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Sattar had been forced to confront throughout the presentation 2 of the government's case. 3 Did my client have an opinion as to what Atia should 4 do, whether he should leave or stay in Egypt? Yes. He clearly 5 felt that Atia should leave. Why? Both because he understood 6 this was what Atia really wanted, as well as his fear that Atia 7 would otherwise be captured and killed. 8 What was my client's role throughout these many months 9 of conversations involving Atia? Or with those who spoke on 10 his behalf? He viewed his role only, only as someone who was 11 in a position to help him get out of Egypt. This was always 12 Ahmed Sattar's intent. No matter what anyone else's intent was 13 regarding Atia, whether it was Taha's intent, whether it was 14 Hamza's intent, doesn't matter. What matters is that Ahmed 15 Sattar's intent was always to help this person who was a 16 fugitive and in danger of death to get out of Egypt. 17 And what was Ahmed Sattar's role in attempting to help 18 Atia? He was simply a link. If we look to both AS-18-T and 19 Government Exhibit 1194X, you will see that. He is a "link." 20 And a "go between, or someone "who has nothing to do with the 21 details." Ahmed was the link in connecting Atia and his people 22 to those who Atia believed could help him get out and escape, 23 whether that be Hamza or Taha, or anybody. 24 Ahmed Sattar is not a member, ladies and gentlemen, of 25 any group. He is an outsider who had been placed in the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11731 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 position of linking and connecting people through the phone. 2 As he testified, it was not important to him whether Atia was a 3 militant. It was not important to him that Atia may have even 4 previously participated in military activities during the 5 violent period prior to 1997. Ahmed only wanted to help Atia 6 get out of Egypt because he feared that if he was caught, he 7 would be given no chance to survive and would simply be 8 executed by the Egyptian security forces. You know what, 9 sadly, Ahmed Sattar's worst fears were justified because that 10 is exactly what ended up happenings to Atia. 11 After Atia's death it is clear from a conversation 12 Ahmed Sattar had with Yassir Al-Sirri what his reaction was to 13 the sequence of events that led up to the killing of Atia. I'm 14 referring now to Government Exhibit 1205X, which is a 15 conversation that took place on October 23, 2000: 16 Al-Sirri: Hum, you know, an accident took place. I 17 went off the computer a little while ago. I am disappointed 18 and, unintelligible, an accident took place in Aswan, Egypt. 19 Sattar: Help. 20 Al-Sirri: That was last Wednesday. 21 Sattar: What happened? 22 Al-Sirri: The hitmen, the dogs went into a place, 23 they killed two people, wounded one, and arrested a number of 24 people. 25 Sattar: To got we belong and to him is our return. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11732 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Where did you get that from? 2 Sattar continues: Where did you get this from? 3 Al-Sirri: I learned it. 4 Sattar continues: Are you sure of this? 5 Al-Sirri: Yes. 100 percent. 6 Sattar: Two were killed. 7 Al-Sirri: And one wounded. 8 Sattar: One was wounded. 9 Al-Sirri: And unknown people were arrested. The 10 authorities in Egypt aren't allowing the media to publish 11 anything related to this issue. Do you have anything about it? 12 Sattar: Sign. I have someone called, but he said he 13 doesn't know anything. He doesn't know if the brother is in 14 the hospital, or in -- he doesn't know what happened exactly. 15 Sattar continues: I mean he was there. He was 16 supposed to meet with someone, okay. In a certain place, 17 someone was going to meet with him in a certain place and give 18 him money so he can exit, leave. 19 Al-Sirri. Um. 20 Sattar: This meeting didn't materialize. This is why 21 he called him. He asked me to get him Mr. So and so, and eh, 22 and he continues. 23 Al-Sirri says: Do you think Al-Asmar, meaning Taha, 24 was negligent of the issue? 25 Sattar: They were all negligent. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11733 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Sattar again: They were all negligent. 2 Continuing Sattar: Listen. I don't know their 3 internal issues, but the final result is they are all 4 negligent. 5 Continuing Al-Sirri: They are saying there is a plan 6 or something. 7 Sattar: Huh? 8 Al-Sirri: The security source. 9 Sattar: Hum. 10 Al-Sirri: That spoke at the beginning, said there is 11 a plan for attacking and whatnot. 12 Sattar: No plan or anything. God damn him. 13 Al-Sirri: That's what he said. 14 Sattar: God damn him. The man only wanted to get out 15 of the hardship he has. This is what I understood no might, no 16 power, save from God. 17 In this conversational Sirri is telling Ahmed that he 18 had learned about the killing of two people and the injuring of 19 another which took place in Aswan, Egypt. Ahmed realized this 20 is now referring to Atia who he knew was in Aswan. 21 What is Ahmed's reaction to hearing this news? He 22 holds both, both Taha and Hamza, responsible. He says that 23 they were all "negligent" for Ahmed understood that Atia only 24 wanted to get out and was looking for help from anyone to make 25 his escape. Ahmed goes on to say in this conversation, as he SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11734 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 also told you in his testimony: "I don't know their internal 2 issues, but the final result is they are all negligent." 3 What is he really saying here? What does that mean? 4 What he is saying here is, listen, I'm not a member of any 5 group. I'm not interested in all the political backstabbing 6 and positioning that has been going on. That's for you guys to 7 figure out. All I know is, here is a brother who was in 8 desperate straits and in need of help. And for all of you, for 9 whatever pretty reasons you may have had failed him and now he 10 is dead. This conversation shows that Ahmed held no special 11 loyalty to Taha or Hamza. And when he disagreed with them, he 12 said so. They were all negligent. They didn't help. I tried, 13 I tried to help. They failed. 14 This conversation also makes it very clear what 15 Ahmed's understanding or state of mind about whether Atia had 16 any so-called plan to do anything, especially some terrorist 17 act, as the government has suggested and told you and have you 18 believe that. This is obvious from Ahmed's reaction to what 19 was said in the press conference by the Egyptian information 20 minister when they kept referring to this statement that there 21 had been a plan, and said God damn it, there was no plan. 22 Where he, as I suggested, with the usual propaganda in lies, 23 the minister justified the killing of Atia by suggesting that 24 Atia was planning to do some acts in Egypt. 25 How does Ahmed respond to this? As I said on page 20 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11735 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 of this transcript, Ahmed says in response to this news: God 2 damn him, the man, referring to Atia, only wanted to get out of 3 the hardship he has. This is what I understood. In other 4 words, Ahmed's understanding was that there never was any plan 5 to do anything. All Atia wanted was to get out of Egypt and 6 nothing else. 7 One week later, on November 2, 2000, Ahmed Sattar also 8 had a conversation with Taha about Atia's death. I'm now 9 referring to Government Exhibit 1209X. 10 Sattar: I look at the subject from the point of view 11 of an outside person. I don't know this person or that. 12 Taha: Eh. 13 Sattar: I did not live with this or with that. 14 Taha: Oh, yes. 15 Sattar: But talking logically. Logic indicates two 16 things. The brother called. Yeah. The brother called on such 17 and such and day. Yeah. He stayed, stayed, stayed, stayed 18 nine days until eh, he kept in touch with me for nine days 19 until one of you got in touch with him. 20 Taha: Nine days. 21 Sattar: Of course, nine days. 22 Taha: To got we belong and to him we return. 23 Sattar: Of course, nine days. 24 Taha: I did not know that, Sheikh. 25 Sattar: It was nine days, Sheikh. I was waiting for SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11736 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 you. I was waiting for you. 2 Taha: It means that I did not call you for nine days? 3 Sattar: You did not call me for one week. You 4 called, eh me, you called me. When did you call me for the 5 first time, if you remember? 6 Taha: I really don't remember, Sheikh. 7 Taha continues: Instead of letting the brothers try 8 to disclose, now you have become the main witness in the case 9 because he is the link, he knows exactly what's been going on. 10 Sattar continues: Because the brother stayed nine 11 days at that place and nothing happened. 12 Taha: Hum. 13 Sattar continues: I told him, meaning Atia: I agree 14 with you. And listen Sheikh. You are the one who is staying 15 there, and you are the one who can foresee what is happening 16 there. I don't know. Yunis does not know, meaning Hamza, and 17 Abu Yasir does not know, meaning Taha. You are the one who can 18 foresee, and you are the one that can make a judgment and you 19 are the one that can decide. 20 Ten days later this conversation takes place between 21 Ahmed Sattar and Taha. This conversation is once again about 22 Atia's death and what led up to it. And just like the release 23 concerning the Sheikh's withdrawal is important support of the 24 peace initiative, people began to blame the icy target, the 25 nonmember, the link, who has no agenda of his own, Ahmed SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11737 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Sattar. If Ahmed ever did have a position on any particular 2 issue, no one certainly cared to know what it was. That's how 3 unimportant he was throughout. I'm referring to a conversation 4 between Ahmed Sattar and Taha that took place on November 12, 5 2000 and is Defense Exhibit AS-6T. 6 Sattar begins: Yes, I talked to Ahmed yesterday, 7 Abu Yasir: Ahmed who? 8 Sattar: Ahmed, the Sheikh's son. He called. 9 Yasir: I told him, call him yeah. 10 Sattar: He spoke to me yesterday. 11 Yasir: Good, yeah. 12 Sattar: I told him about -- I told him that I was 13 upset about what happened and so on and so forth. The three 14 things that are the brother came and stayed. He is now talking 15 about how upset he is about hearing about Atia's death. It was 16 eight to nine days from the day he stayed until the other one 17 called me, until he wasn't -- on the second or third day they 18 waited for the other one to call again. Nothing. He asked me 19 to call the other brother. I sent to the other brother. 20 He continues: He spoke to him and that was the end of 21 the story. The third thing that's been said contains words 22 that are not true. I didn't talk to him or tell him: "Listen 23 to what this guy is saying" or "don't listen to what that guy 24 is saying." And nothing, and nothing of that sort. That's 25 good. If the brothers wanted, wanted peace of mind, wanted to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11738 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 feel at ease and all, what do they do? Who do they blame? 2 This guy, meaning him. They wanted to blame everything on this 3 guy. And they set their minds to do it and there are mistakes, 4 very big mistakes that were made in that matter. But none of 5 them wants to admit that a mistake was made. The easiest way 6 is to blame someone who is not one of us, meaning the group 7 that will put them at ease. 8 And he continues: He didn't ask anything whatsoever. 9 He showed that he was upset, though, of course. 10 Yasir: He is upset, but I told him, It is not enough 11 that you're upset. You want the people there to know the 12 truth. 13 Sattar: I told him that. I told him. I said to him 14 people, people have to know this. I told him, from the day 15 this happened until today, no one called to tell me what 16 happened as if it was something, the brother's blood was shed 17 in vain, meaning Atia. And no one asked and no one checks what 18 happened." 19 Yasir: Sheikh, they are putting the burden on you. 20 They are putting the burden on you. 21 Sattar: Yes. 22 Yasir: And I, this issue. 23 Yasir continues: All through, all through the letter. 24 He -- I'll send you the letter anyway. 25 Sattar: Yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11739 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Yasir: So you can defend yourself with it. All 2 through the letter he says: This guy, God forgive him, did 3 this and that guy, God forbid him, did that, and, 4 unintelligible, the matter, which means that your role in the 5 issue is to do a certain task. 6 Sattar: Yes. 7 Yasir: It is not. This one asks you to connect, so 8 you connect. And he asks you to connect him to this guy and 9 you go ahead and connect him. But you're not an active party. 10 Sattar: Yes. 11 Yasir: The brother tells you, connect me to brother 12 Haytham. You connected him. Connect me to brother Yunis. You 13 connected him. The brother told you, connect me, and you 14 connected him. 15 Sattar: Yes. 16 Yasir: But you're not a party in this matter. You're 17 not giving your point of view because the people don't know you 18 personally. They only know you through the people that are 19 talking. 20 Sattar: True, true. 21 Yasir: The best thing for one is to stay removed from 22 the accusation. 23 This conversation really says it all. It explains 24 exactly the role Ahmed had throughout. He is merely asked by 25 one brother to connect to another so he connects. He is not an SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11740 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 active party nor a party in this matter." And he is not 2 giving his point of view because people don't really even know 3 who he is and couldn't care less. He is certainly not a member 4 of anything and if people know him at all, they only know him 5 through those who assisted him in connecting one to the other. 6 What the government has done here, as they did so 7 often, was to ask you to make certain inferences from reading 8 particular conversations and have you read between the lines to 9 conclude that these were really words of violence and action. 10 If, however, you carefully, carefully examine all of these 11 calls and place them together, you will determine the obvious 12 of what was really happening. All Atia wanted was to get out 13 of Egypt and all Ahmed Sattar wanted was to help him get out. 14 Are you asking yourself now, well, if Ahmed Sattar 15 knew he was helping a fugitive, even if Atia was attempting to 16 flee from this repressive Egyptian regime that we have heard so 17 much about, doesn't that nevertheless mean he was aiding 18 someone who he learned was a terrorist? And if so, isn't he 19 then guilty of providing aid and support to a terrorist or a 20 terrorist organization? The answer to that question is quite 21 simply no. For even if you think this, he is not charged with 22 helping or attempting to help someone escape from Egypt. He is 23 not charged with providing support to a terrorist or a 24 terrorist organization. You must only focus on the charges 25 brought before you for your consideration. Don't be distracted SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11741 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 by any of the government's suggestions to the contrary. 2 This might be an appropriate time for a recess, your 3 Honor. 4 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, we will take ten 5 minutes. 6 Please, please remember my continuing instructions. 7 Please don't talk about this case at all. Always remember to 8 keep an open mind until I have instructed you on the law and 9 you've gone to the jury room to begin your deliberations. 10 All rise, please. Please follow Mr. Fletcher to the 11 jury room. 12 (Jury not present) 13 THE COURT: At the break the reporter should check out 14 the Live Note. 15 (Recess) 16 THE COURT: Let's bring in the jury. 17 (Jury present) 18 THE COURT: Mr. Paul, you may proceed. 19 MR. PAUL: Thank you, your Honor. 20 Let me now discuss the person himself, Ahmed Abdel 21 Sattar. As I told you in my opening statement, your task is to 22 determine Ahmed Sattar's intent from all of the evidence 23 presented. In order to understand his true intent from all 24 these conversations you have been presented with, you have to 25 both place them in context of what was going on at the time SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11742 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 that he took place, as well as having some understanding of the 2 person himself. 3 Up to now I have attempted as best I could to place 4 Ahmed's seven years of intercepted calls in context for you. 5 At this time I would like to examine with you the person who is 6 speaking during those calls. You had an opportunity to observe 7 Ahmed Sattar on the witness stand for two weeks of examination. 8 During those two weeks you were able to watch him closely and 9 draw your own conclusions about what kind of person he is. You 10 were able to listen to not only what he had to say, but also 11 observe how he said it. In other words, you had a chance, a 12 unique chance to observe his demeanor on that witness stand, 13 his demeanor, meaning the manner in which questions were 14 answered, his body language, his tone of voice. They all 15 assist you in evaluating what kind of person he is and whether 16 he is telling the truth. 17 I only ask, I only ask that you apply your common 18 sense, as you would in making such a decision about anyone, 19 when making your determination about Ahmed Sattar's 20 truthfulness. Think of whether he attempted to answer every 21 single question put to him in an honest, open, and candid way. 22 Think back about all the times Mr. Morvillo would raise his 23 voice during his questioning of Ahmed, perhaps out of his own 24 frustration, and how Ahmed calmly attempted to answer those 25 questions. This is the kind of man Ahmed Sattar is and that, I SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11743 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 submit, is the kind of person you heard from and observed on 2 the witness stand. 3 Just imagine for a moment how difficult that must have 4 been for him, as it would be for anyone in his place, with so 5 much at stake. Think about someone having to consider 6 explaining conversations that took place over seven years ago 7 and then facing questions like, what did you mean by that one 8 sentence in that telephone call in 1998? Or what was your 9 understanding of what Taha or Hani or Atia or some other person 10 you may have been talking with meant by that one sentence in 11 this conversation in 1999, or that conversation in 2000, or 12 2001? And all this to be explained while testifying in 13 English, Ahmed Sattar's second language, about conversations he 14 had that were translated from Arabic, his first language, to 15 English. Ask yourself, was he credible? Was he forthcoming 16 and truthful throughout his testimony? Did he come across as 17 someone who made every effort to testify in a truthful and 18 accurate way? You have to be the judges of that. 19 When he got on that witness stand and swore to tell 20 the truth, he took that oath with the same seriousness he had 21 when he swore to the only other oath he ever took in his 22 lifetime. That was the oath he took when he became a United 23 States citizen. And that, ladies and gentlemen, was what Ahmed 24 Sattar was referring to when he said he had sworn to abide and 25 uphold the U.S. Constitution. And you know what? You know SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11744 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 what? No improper sarcastic rhetorical comment made by a 2 prosecutor during cross-examination. None of that with regard 3 to questioning my client's patriotism will change any of that. 4 I submit to you that it was very apparent that Ahmed 5 Sattar was telling the truth throughout his testimony, his 6 effort to be as precise and truthful as possible was obvious, 7 whether he was testifying during direct examination or 8 cross-examination. On the stand testifying for two weeks and 9 there was not one, not one question presented or inconsistency 10 raised with his testimony from any of the evidence which would 11 indicate he was not telling the truth. 12 In point of fact, there were even small things, I 13 would suggest to you, which may have gone unnoticed by all of 14 you that happened during his testimony, which showed exactly 15 how honest and truthful he was throughout. One of these 16 occurred when Mr. Morvillo attempted unsuccessfully, I might 17 add, to raise inferences and improper suggestions in your minds 18 while questioning Ahmed Sattar about whether or not it was true 19 he had conversations with an individual named Emad Salem, the 20 very same individual who was an ex-Egyptian military officer 21 that came to the United States and worked as an informant for 22 the FBI and was paid handsomely, I might add, to do so. 23 He also ended up testifying for the government during 24 Sheikh Rahman's trial where it was learned that he always kept 25 his tape recording on and in his briefcase which he carried SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11745 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 with him at all times. You remember when Mr. Morvillo inquired 2 of Ahmed Sattar as to whether he had asked Salem certain 3 questions about sweeping his home for surveillance bugs, or 4 telling Salem that after the arrest of others connected to the 5 first bombing of the World Trade Center, he ran home right away 6 to clean up everything. 7 It is interesting that Mr. Morvillo would raise these 8 kind of questions when he knows full well there is absolutely 9 no proof of this ever happening and no recordings ever produced 10 to the government from Emad Salem to suggest otherwise. 11 Improper inferences raised, ladies and gentlemen. 12 A true test of Ahmed's truthfulness was when Mr. 13 Fallick, on his redirect examination, attempted to ask Ahmed 14 about an article that was written in the Wall Street Journal 15 concerning Emad Salem. Ahmed Sattar certainly could tell at 16 that moment that all Mr. Fallick wanted to be able to do was to 17 read the article in court and then ask him some questions about 18 it. All Ahmed had to say was, yes, I remember reading it, or, 19 yes, I had discussed it with others at the time it was 20 published and I'm familiar with it. That would have -- that's 21 all that was required, to allow Mr. Fallick to go into the 22 article which is apparently all he wanted to do. But since he 23 honestly did not remember having read it, he would not testify 24 otherwise. 25 A small but telling example of how seriously Ahmed SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11746 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Sattar took that oath to tell the truth and nothing but the 2 truth, Mr. Sattar only told the truth throughout the two weeks 3 of his testimony. So what did we learn about Mr. Sattar from 4 his testimony? We learned that this 45-year-old man grew up in 5 Egypt where he lived with his parents, two sisters, and two 6 brothers. He and his family were all practicing Muslims and he 7 remains a devout Muslim to this day. After completing high 8 school he joined the Egyptian army, where he served for two 9 years, mainly stationed in Sinai. After he was honorably 10 discharged, he returned home to work. 11 At this time, as a teenager, he was more interested in 12 learning about politics and he attended gatherings which 13 consisted of groups with different political positions and 14 beliefs. It was during this important period of his life that 15 he became more attuned to the Islamists who looked at their 16 religion as a way of life. The more politically active he 17 became, the more difficult it was for him to remain in Egypt 18 because simply joining or attending political activities is 19 forbidden and could be dangerous. 20 So with his family's blessings he came to the United 21 States in July of 1982. I believe it is very important for you 22 to have some understanding of my client's background in Egypt 23 as a young man because it is during those early years of his 24 life that his political interests and activism took place. 25 This was the time when he learned and saw firsthand how the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11747 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Egyptian government ruled his native country. He saw how they 2 arrested those who gathered to express politics. Also he 3 explained that violence is, to use his words "a two-way 4 street." And if the government commits violence against 5 others, then this will often be answered with violence. 6 While living in Egypt, Ahmed Sattar, like everyone 7 else, dreaded that unannounced knock at the door by the 8 Egyptian security forces because that could mean being arrested 9 and dragged away for absolutely no reason at all. We even have 10 an example of this in a telephone conversation between Ahmed 11 Sattar and Taha on October 9, 2000, which was introduced into 12 evidence as Government Exhibit 1188X. Ahmed testified about 13 this call. You may remember that this was a call where he is 14 describing how upset and concerned he was about hearing that 15 his Christian neighbor, who lives above his family in Egypt, 16 was arrested at his home by Egyptian security. Ahmed's 17 understanding at the time was that the police must have been 18 looking for him. And when they arrived to find no one at his 19 house, they simply decided to arrest his neighbor. The concern 20 Ahmed felt for his Christian neighbor who had done absolutely 21 nothing wrong, except having the misfortune of living above 22 Ahmed's family, is just an example of the kind of person Ahmed 23 Sattar is. He is anything but anti-Christian and to infer 24 otherwise is wrong. 25 It is also important for you to have some familiarity SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11748 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 with the kind of life Ahmed Sattar lived in every day while in 2 Egypt because it was those years that provided the impetus for 3 him to want to see political change in the country he loved. 4 Any change by peaceful means he believes would be better than 5 what has existed throughout his lifetime and before. He prayed 6 for and hoped that change would come for the better. And this 7 is what he came to understand and believe was Sheikh Rahman's 8 primary objective as well. 9 Ahmed Sattar arrived in New York with a tourist visa 10 and ended up living and working at various jobs at a restaurant 11 in Brooklyn. He worked hard while learning the English 12 language by attending Brooklyn College. And in 1984, he met 13 his wife, Lisa Schreiber. Lisa is from Chicago, and a catholic 14 who attended catholic school her whole life. They were married 15 in February 1985 at City Hall and have four children. And you 16 need only to have observed Ahmed Sattar's face while he was on 17 the witness stand as he pointed and introduced each one of his 18 family members to you. You need only to have looked at his 19 face to fully appreciate how proud he is of those children. 20 Eight years after their marriage, without any urging 21 on the part of Ahmed, Lisa decided that she wanted to convert 22 and become a Muslim. 23 In 1988, Ahmed applied and got a job at the United 24 States Post Office. But at first he was hired as a letter 25 carrier and then he became a special delivery messenger. This SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11749 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 job meant that he was delivering all over Staten Island where 2 he was now living. His route included delivering and picking 3 up mail at the coast guard base where navy and nuclear 4 submarines arrived and docked. This job also took him to other 5 restricted security areas at JFK where few people were ever 6 permitted to go. His job at the post office making deliveries 7 to the same restricted areas continued throughout the time the 8 government was investigating and intercepting his phone. 9 Nothing changed during this entire period. 10 In 1990, Ahmed for the first time ever actually saw 11 Sheikh Abdel Rahman. The Sheikh had come to the United States 12 and it was announced that he was going to be a guest speaker at 13 the mosque in Brooklyn where Ahmed prayed. Having lived in and 14 come from Egypt, Ahmed Sattar certainly had heard of Sheikh 15 Rahman because in Egypt he was a very prominent figure. Ahmed 16 knew from reading about him that he was a scholar, having 17 graduated from Al-Azhar University. He also knew he was 18 charged and acquitted of being involved in the assassination of 19 President Sadat. To Ahmed and no doubt many others the Sheikh 20 was an individual who did not fear standing up to the Egyptian 21 government and taking them to task for oppressing their own 22 people, knowing that such statements could in fact mean jail. 23 In 1991, Ahmed was introduced to the Sheikh when he 24 came to give a speech at Ahmed's mosque. It was in 1992 when 25 Ahmed's relationship with the Sheikh began to develop, only SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11750 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 because the mosque had offered Sheikh Rahman a chance to give 2 both lectures and sermons on a more regular basis. 3 During this time, because the Sheikh needed someone to 4 drive him back and forth to the mosque from his home, Ahmed and 5 others were assigned to help him. Since Ahmed had become a 6 board member and more actively involved at the mosque, he would 7 see the Sheikh on a regular basis. He heard some of his 8 lectures and listened to some of his sermons. Most of the 9 Sheikh's lectures and sermons he actually listened to were from 10 tapes that were seized by the government after the Sheikh was 11 arrested in 1993. 12 We all sat through and listened to many of these 13 sermons which the government chose to play in court. How did 14 Ahmed Sattar view these sermons? Obviously, as he told you, 15 given his different background, religion and culture from all 16 of us, his view and understanding of them is quite different. 17 Ahmed testified that though he could understand how some of the 18 fiery language could be interpreted by others as anti-Christian 19 or anti-American foreign policy, or anti-Jewish, he also 20 explained that one has to put them in context. Just like it is 21 difficult to understand the meaning of what is being said by 22 taking one part or one conversation of Ahmed's intercepted 23 calls out of the context, it is also unfair and impossible to 24 understand the Sheikh's words without knowing when they were 25 said, so that they could be placed in some historic context. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11751 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 He explained that one has to know the Arabic language and the 2 Quranic verses that are applied, as well as the historic 3 references being made, such as the bar in Bosnia or the Persian 4 Gulf War. 5 As Ahmed said, if he were to literally accept some of 6 these words, he would have to view his Christian wife and her 7 entire family as well as his brother's Jewish wife as his 8 enemies. Additionally, don't lose sight of the fact that these 9 words were spoken by Sheikh Rahman, not Ahmed Sattar. And as 10 he explained several times, he did not always agree with the 11 Sheikh, nor did he adopt everything the Sheikh had to say. He 12 may have admired him, but, as he told you, he is still only 13 human and makes mistakes. 14 Throughout Ahmed Sattar's testimony he told you how on 15 many occasions he disagreed with the Sheikh, and he told him 16 so. In 1993, when the Sheikh was arrested for an immigration 17 problem, Ahmed, while attending the hearings, was approached by 18 the media. This contact with the media began with his earlier 19 community activities and continued over all the years. Ahmed 20 spoke to the media about events in Egypt, as well as the 21 Sheikh's case. His goal initially was to counter the portrayal 22 in the public eye of Sheikh Rahman being some religious 23 fanatic. He tried to emphasize the Sheikh was a scholar and a 24 religious leader in Egypt. 25 And when Sheikh Rahman was thereafter indicted and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11752 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 arrested in July 1993 for the crimes he finally went to trial 2 on, Ahmed was there to help translate and later be assigned by 3 the Court to assist on the case as a paralegal. It was in this 4 role as a paralegal during the Sheikh's case that he came to 5 work with the entire legal team. This is when he met Ramsey 6 Clark, Lynne Stewart, and Abdeen Jabara. He also came to know 7 the primary translator, Mohammed Yousry, who worked on the case 8 both during and after the trial. Ahmed often visited with the 9 Sheikh while working hard on his case. 10 As depicted in his time sheets that were seized from 11 his apartment and introduced into evidence, you could see that 12 for yourself. When the Sheikh was later convicted and 13 sentenced to life imprisonment, Ahmed continued to work on 14 behalf of the legal team. It now became the goal of the entire 15 defense team to keep the Sheikh's name alive in the world. 16 Committees were set up to keep the public aware of what was 17 happening with the Sheikh. 18 As Sheikh Rahman's prison segregation became more and 19 more restrictive due to the SAMs we heard so much about, it 20 became the goal of all to keep the Sheikh apprised of world 21 events, as well as keeping the world informed of his case and 22 severe prison conditions. Press releases were issued by Ramsey 23 Clark or Abdeen Jabara which informed the public about the 24 Sheikh's case, the conditions of his health, and restrictions 25 during his imprisonment. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11753 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Ahmed's role during the trial and even after the 2 Sheikh was sentenced was to continue to communicate with those 3 in Egypt, which included the Sheikh's family, as well as the 4 lawyer, Muntasir al-Zayyat. He also was asked to continue and 5 cultivate his contacts with the media. As one of the 6 individuals who worked at the legal team for the Sheikh, even 7 after sentencing, he coordinated contacts with the press for 8 the lawyers and sometimes issued authorized statements himself 9 to the media. This was arranged because the entire legal team 10 had discussed how even after the SAMs were in place in an 11 effort by the government to completely cut Sheikh Rahman off 12 from the entire world, they should take every opportunity to 13 remind the public both that he is alive and should be treated 14 humanely. 15 These statements to the media were always with that 16 goal in mind. Ahmed spoke out to anyone who would listen about 17 the Sheikh's case and his terrible prison conditions. He had 18 numerous business cards from the media around the world which 19 we all saw displayed. They were seized from his house in 20 Government Exhibit 2081 in evidence. He spoke with the 21 American press and the Arab press. Whether it be about the 22 restrictions placed on the Sheikh or his health, Ahmed believed 23 that people needed to know. 24 Did he at one time in 2001 exaggerate and lie to the 25 press about the Sheikh not being given his medication for SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11754 515MSAT2 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 diabetes when he knew it was probably the Sheikh that was 2 protesting and refusing to take his medication? Yes. Was this 3 release to the press to serve any other purpose other than to 4 draw attention to the horrific conditions the Sheikh was asked 5 to endure? No. 6 (Continued on next page) 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11755 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Did he issue this release with the purpose in mind 2 that this would cause violence to occur? Absolutely not. 3 Ahmed Sattar's role was to continue to publicize the Sheikh's 4 name so people did not forget him. Any news, any news that 5 included Sheikh Rahman's name was good news, for it meant that 6 people would be reminded that he remained incarcerated and in 7 the United States. 8 Did this mean that Ahmed Sattar agreed with or adopted 9 the statements from groups that made threats of violence 10 calling for the release of Sheikh Rahman? No. 11 Nevertheless, that does not mean that he did not mind 12 reading these stories simply because it was news, and news that 13 mentioned the Sheikh's name served as a reminder to the world 14 of his incarceration. 15 A perfect example of this was when a group or a gang, 16 as described by Ahmed Sattar, called Abu Sayyaf made several 17 ransom demands on the Philippine government, including the 18 release of Sheikh Rahman from an American prison. The fact 19 that this gang called for ransom in exchange for the release of 20 hostages they held says all you need to know about what kind of 21 thugs we are really talking about here. 22 You can see Ahmed's own reaction to this story 23 involving the demand for ransom and release of the Sheikh not 24 just from his testimony as he told you, but from Defense 25 Exhibit AS-3T. In this conversation that took place on April SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11756 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 28, 2000, between Ahmed Sattar and a reporter named Mohammad 2 Al-Shafi'i, there is a discussion of both the publicity of 3 Louis Farrakhan wanting to go visit the Sheikh as well as the 4 demands being made by Abu-Sayyaf. 5 Remember all publicity, all press is good from Ahmed 6 Sattar's standpoint. I am referring now to AS-3T in evidence. 7 Mr. Sattar begins. We have said, we have said that, from a 8 legal point of view, this matter is over, meaning the Sheikh's 9 case. Shafi'i: Ah-huh. Sattar: The legal route has already 10 reached a dead end, meaning the case is pretty much over. 11 Al-Shafi'i: Ah-huh, I do understand that. Sattar: Now 12 pressure has to be exerted. Shafi'i: Okay. Well, will this 13 man be able, I mean be able to open a window of opportunity? 14 And they're now referring to Louis Farrakhan as the man. 15 16 Sattar: Certainly, because he has his weight from a 17 political point of view. Al-Shafi'i goes: Does he really have 18 political weight? Sattar: Of course he has. He has political 19 weigh here. No one can deny that. How many followers does he 20 have? Sattar: What? How many followers does he have? 21 Sattar: He has many followers. 22 23 Can you give me an approximate number? I can't do 24 that. Can we say he has a million followers? Sattar: I can't 25 give you a figure. Okay. Sattar: I can't give a specific SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11757 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 figure. However, I can tell you with certainty that he held a 2 conference, ah, last year, and 60,000 tickets were sold. 3 60,000 in New York alone? No. In Chicago, not in New York. 4 In Chicago? I see. Sattar: Yes. Continuing, and it makes 5 sense for to you concentrate on these points? Sattar: Yes. 6 The points are as follows, and now he is reviewing 7 them. The legal route has been exhausted, meaning the Sheikh's 8 case. There is a need to exert political pressure. He is the 9 only person who has the credentials that will enable him to 10 exercise this kind of pressure, meaning Farrakhan. 11 Sattar: I cannot say that he is the only person who has such 12 credentials. 13 We all used to say in his capacity as a Muslim, he 14 asked to see him and hear the -- Sattar: You will have a 15 chance, you will have a chance to see the facts and in the 16 facts you will find what they wish to receive. 17 Al-Shafi'i: All right. Sattar: And we wanted to look like, 18 ah, statement. That's beautiful. 19 Sattar: There is also the, ah, ah, we may want to 20 know that there is something else that we should mention. One 21 of the things that we should also write about is that there is, 22 a committee was formed and the name of the committee is, "the 23 committee to free Dr. Omar -- Omar Abdel Rahman. 24 Sattar: Of course there is on here, I'm in charge of the 25 chapter here, meaning the committee. I see. Sattar: In New SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11758 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 York. 2 What is the purpose of the committee? Sattar: I see. The 3 purpose, the purpose of the committee is to inform. To exert 4 pressure? 5 Sattar: To inform the, the Muslims. This is the first place. 6 First to inform the Muslims. 7 Sattar: About the case of the Sheikh. 8 About the case of the Sheikh? 9 Sattar: Also, ah, ah, to try to mobilize support, 10 mobilize support for ah, mobilize support and exert political 11 pressure. 12 And exert pressure? 13 Sattar: Political pressure on, on the parties that were 14 involved in or caused the arrest and imprisonment of the Sheikh 15 in order to secure the Sheikh's release. Among the other 16 things you may want that I want you to mention as well. 17 Of course, you heard about the Philippines based Abu-Sayyaf 18 group. 19 Sattar continues: One of the demands of this group is 20 the release of Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman. Al-Shafi'i: Yes, 21 this is the Abu-Sayyaf group. 22 Sattar: Haven't you, continuing, read about this matter? 23 Yes. Sattar: They're holding about 21 hostages, and he 24 continues. 25 Of course, I mean concerning this matter, I mean, ah, between SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11759 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 you and me, I mean of course one would not support it, meaning 2 Abu-Sayyaf. 3 Of course, Al-Shafi'i says. Sattar: I'm not going to say 4 this. I mean I'm not going to say that we support or we don't 5 support. I am going to leave it like that. You can simply 6 make a reference to it. 7 Al-Shafi'i: Shed light on it. Sattar: You can make a 8 reference to it. I mean, you can refer to this matter. 9 Ah-huh, and you can say that this group holds 21 hostages and 10 that they are, they are demanding the release of three people 11 here in America. 12 Publicity, ladies and gentlemen, that was the name of 13 the game. This is what mattered, and the fact that Ahmed 14 Sattar clearly did not personally agree with or adopt any of 15 these kind of threats is obvious from these conversations. 16 Between you and me, I don't know what this is. Don't 17 say that. Just put it in your article, put it in your press 18 release Al-Shafi'i is calling for the release of Sheikh Rahman. 19 It is press, it is publicity, letting the people know. 20 Ahmed has repeatedly told you no one should be treated 21 in such an inhumane way, even those convicted of serious, 22 terrible crimes. It is the equivalent in Sattar's mind of 23 locking him in a box and throwing away the key. I do not mean 24 to suggest that the government was doing anything illegal 25 through their use of the SAMS because clearly they were not, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11760 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 but in Ahmed Sattar's mind, it was wrong. It was the 2 equivalent of a slow death, and it was for this reason that he 3 continued to issue press releases, just as the lawyers had done 4 because of both his role as one of the paralegals for the 5 Sheikh during his trial and a spokesperson for Sheikh Rahman 6 after his trial, Ahmed became known in the press by the 7 government and by many an agent. 8 This is how he eventually found himself receiving 9 unsolicited telephone calls from supporters and admirers of 10 Sheikh Rahman from all around the world. He began to hear from 11 people he had never met or ever knew. This is when he began to 12 receive phone calls and hear from members of the Islamic Group. 13 Did he know about any of these people and these individuals? 14 Of course. He is from Egypt and familiar with all the Islamic 15 groups that had existed there. 16 Did Ahmed Sattar gather knowledge over time about Sheikh Omar 17 Abdel Rahman? Yes. Did Ahmed Sattar gather knowledge over 18 time about the Islamic Group? Yes. 19 Did Ahmed Sattar gather knowledge over time about Taha 20 and Atia? Yes. Did Ahmed Sattar ever believe that any of the 21 knowledge he gathered about the Islamic Group, the Sheikh, Taha 22 or Atia would in any way bring about the risk of violence to 23 any person? Absolutely not. 24 When he testified that he never thought that knowledge 25 or knowing things or knowing about things was a crime in SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11761 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 America, he was correct. It is not. Listen to the court's 2 instructions on the issue of knowledge. Listen carefully to 3 his Honor, "I caution you, caution you" in his instructions 4 "that mere knowledge or acquiesence without participation an in 5 unlawful plan is not sufficient." You listen to those 6 instructions. 7 Did Ahmed over the years continue to receive these 8 telephone calls and communicate with people such as Taha, 9 Yunis, Alaa Abdul Raziq Atia, Abu Hazim, Al-Sirri and the 10 Sheikh's family, among others? 11 We know that he did from listening to all of those 12 conversations with this trial. Did he continue to connect with 13 the use of his telephone some of these individuals with others? 14 We also know that from the calls presented showing how it often 15 patched calls, at the request of many. 16 Was he anything more than just that, someone who 17 connects one with another or a link, as we heard? As we also 18 have heard and discussed and seen from some of these 19 conversations that he was just that and only that. 20 Did he ask to be placed in this role as the link in 21 assisting individuals to speak with one another? No. Nor did 22 he shy away from doing just that, and he accepted this 23 responsibility very seriously. He didn't just say that on the 24 witness stand. We know this from a conversation that took 25 place on October 25, 1999 between Ahmed Sattar and Mustafa SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11762 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 Hamza, and it was during this conversation, where there is a 2 conversation about the peace initiative, about Ahmed Sattar's 3 role. 4 I am referring to Defendant's Exhibit AS-2T. Yunis, 5 which is Hamza, begins: Therefore, I mean, when things like 6 that are said, for example, of course, you undoubtedly realize 7 that different points of view exist within any group of people 8 or with any organized group or any entity. 9 Sattar continues: Yes. 10 Yunis says: Of course, and there is no doubt about 11 that. The man at our end needs to listen to all points of 12 view. Of course, I mean, this was our experience with him. It 13 was inevitable that he was, I mean, they are -- may Lord ease 14 his hardship. He was accustomed to listening to all parties 15 and all points of view, meaning the Sheikh, but to have a 16 certain point of view imposed by our Brother Abu Yasir or by 17 you, for example, is not suitable for, for evaluating a given 18 position. 19 When a statement comes out in the name of the man, 20 when the whole world says that the man doesn't know, I mean, 21 this is something extremely dangerous for an entity like ours. 22 This matters, I mean, I want you to be very sensitive when you 23 handle such matters, and Yunis continues: I mean he shouldn't 24 adopt a position of X or of Y. No, he shouldn't. I mean, for 25 example, if someone conveys such and such a thing, quote, I SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11763 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 heard this and that, this point of view, end quote, no. 2 Sattar: It is not a matter of adopting any. Yunis, 3 interrupts, and Montasser says, I swear to God that people over 4 there are favorably predisposed. Where is the favorable 5 predisposition? 6 Sattar: My dear brother, my dear brother, this talk, 7 I do mean for your information, for your information, this 8 talk, this, I mean, this picture that you see which is the 9 question of being favorably predisposed or unfavorably 10 predisposed, I mean, I, also I, for your information, I am 11 detached from all points of view. Yunis: I don't know all 12 points of view, true. All that I know, all that I know, for 13 example, is the talk, the talk. 14 Yunis: In these times of hardship and tribulation 15 such as the times we are living in now? Yes. Especially that 16 you are in a place, in one of the critical places, and the 17 place, the place where the man is at your end, meaning the 18 Sheikh, this is the most important for us, ha? 19 Sattar: Yes. Yunis: Of course, this requires great 20 precision in this matter. The question, I mean it actually 21 doesn't resolve around between me even though, unintelligible, 22 of Abu Yasir gets to me as I told you, before this in a letter 23 pertaining to the thing. 24 However, I mean I counted on you being, I mean you 25 should understand that, or we can talk with you and I can learn SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11764 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 from you about the issues and circumstances and things like 2 that, yes. 3 Yunis continues: Whoever, I mean, whoever talks with 4 you, we have a system, I mean there is more than one party to a 5 system. This means, this means he cannot decide something on 6 his own, ha, nor can anyone else. 7 No. I am aware of that. I am aware of that. I know that very 8 well. 9 Yunis: Even if -- Sattar: I know that very well and 10 that is why, Yunis, yes. And also the Sheikh knows that, knows 11 that really well, yes. 12 That is why you, if you noticed, he referred all 13 matters, I mean if you noticed in his letter, he referred all 14 matters to you, plural form, meaning to all of the brothers. 15 Yunis: Yes, I am aware of that. Sattar: He said, Yunis, this 16 is a very good point. Sattar: I mean he said quote. I am not 17 pleased with, I am not pleased with prevailing conditions. I 18 am not pleased with prevailing conditions, but you are the ones 19 who know where the interest lies. 20 If you notice what he had said, the points and the 21 text, every point is referred to, to you, plural form, 22 and that you should consult, meaning all of you. 23 24 Sattar continues: Amen, the Lord and all the world, 25 amen to the Lord of all the world. This is what I want. This SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11765 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 is what I want, ah, ah, to place to go, you mean my position 2 is, I am nothing else but a go-between. I mean if there is, I 3 mean, for example, if you need to say, to say something, yes, I 4 mean, you will convey it. If another brother wants to ask 5 about something, we shall also convey it. 6 I mean I say that because this is, this is a moral 7 responsibility that is conferred upon me, that is why this is 8 what I should do. I simply convey, convey a certain picture. 9 Yunis: Of course. This is super-excellent. 10 In this conversation it is clear that Hamza is 11 explaining how important Ahmed's position of being a go-between 12 is. It is not his role to express any opinion of his own, and 13 as explained by Ahmed at the end of this conversation, he 14 understood his role and accepted it as his moral 15 responsibility. So you may ask, "is this rule, role, of being 16 a link have any boundaries and does Ahmed Sattar understand 17 what they are and whether they should not be crossed? 18 Yes. An example of this is an allegation brought in 19 this case by the government, as stated in this indictment, as 20 an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy to defraud the 21 United States in Count 1. Quite honestly, ladies and 22 gentlemen, I submit that this is presented to you for no other 23 purpose and reason than the government's continued attempt to 24 bring and direct this case back to America once again. 25 They want you to believe and be scared into thinking SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 11766 515JSAT3 Summation - Mr. Paul 1 that somehow this case is connected to the security of the 2 United States, and I am referring now to the evidence about the 3 USS Cole. There is no evidence, ther